Regarding the discussion of fees and copyright and museum images-

An answer from a museum curator:

I have just come in on this discussion so I missed earlier posts. I am no
expert in copyright law, and as a historian who has been on the other end
trying to get permissions and photos to use for scholarly articles for which
I won't even get paid, I sympathize. However, your post contains several
misconceptions, so here I will give the museum's point of view, posting as a
museum curator. I am speaking for myself and not officially on behalf of my

1) Museums are not trying to extort you. Rather, they are trying to use
the demand for photos as a way of raising some money for their operations.
Which leads me to:

2) Museums are NOT all publicly funded. And funding, whether from
public, grant, private donations, admission fees, gift shop sales, and
whatever, never add up to enough to fully support the maintenance of the
buildings and their storage areas (which must conform to museum standards
when you are talking about storage and exhibit spaces), not to mention
curatorial and other staff salaries which are pathetically low-I know
several junior curators who have had to take on 2nd jobs on weekends and
nights to make up the difference between a museum salary and a working
wage-and to put on the exhibits which they want to do and which the public

(As a minor digression, think of that next time you say "Why can't you put
on more quilt exhibits?"! Quilts do not hang themselves. It costs money to
deal with conservation, mounting, label production, painting the gallery
after the last exhibit-yes it's necessary, anything that has been hung on
the wall, whether a painting or a label, has left a hole or an adhesive
strip which must be repaired and painted; lightbulbs alone, that are museum
standard, cost us over $10K per exhibit; etc, etc. And how about those
glossy color catalogs you wish we'd produce for each quilt exhibit? Those
aren't cheap either, even in this digital age; and do we have the staff, or
does the staff have the time, to produce one? Probably not-why? We can't
afford to hire more people. Museums are cutting staff left, right and

3) On the matter of being asked to pay based on how many copies of the
book are being produced: yes, fees are usually pro-rated based on whether
you are using the image for a lecture or a non-profit scholarly publication,
or for profit-and for how much profit. I wouldn't complain about that, you
are probably benefiting from it. Why shouldn't a publisher, which is out to
make a profit, pay us a decent sum for use of our image? A US history
textbook publisher wants to use an image of one of our objects or paintings.
It will sell tens, perhaps scores, of thousands of copies and make a tidy
profit. Or, say a mega-advertising firm wants to use a painting in a museum
collection for its new ad campaign for, say, makeup or vodka to be printed
in all the major fashion magazines. The ad firm, and the makeup company or
whatever, will bank millions from the campaign. Is it so terrible for that
publisher or the ad firm to be charged more than the AQSG scholar publishing
in Uncoverings, or the publisher printing a mere 500 or 1500 copies? Do you
really want to be charged the same as Scribner's or Time/Life or Nivea or

4) We request two copies so that we can have a record of where the image
has appeared. I can't tell you how often someone calls up and says "I saw
the picture of your X in Y magazine/journal/book published back in 1974" or
something. Having the book in the office allows us to track that down and
help that person who may want to know more about it, or to use it in her own
publication. Having a note in the computer catalog database in the record
for that object, saying "this appeared in Quilter's Magazine in 1984," will
not really help us look that up.

5) Once you have made your copy of the image, you do not "own" it. You
own the copy, yes, but you do not have permanent, unlimited right to use the
image itself. The photographer has taken the picture and s/he, or the
museum, has the rights to it. That's just how it is. You don't get to claim
ownership of the Mona Lisa for your book and for anything you ever publish,
just because you own a postcard of it. C'mon-really.

6) Of course different museums have different policies. They aren't the
same institution. Why on earth would you expect them to have a uniform set
of rules or procedures?

As I say, I understand the frustration of the hoops to jump thru, and costs
of obtaining photos from museums. I suggest that if you are publishing
something scholarly not for profit, make sure you ask for a discount or
waiver. If you are struggling with a tiny image budget from a publisher,
raise hell with them, not the museum. THEY are in it for the profit. WE are

Please realize, in conclusion (finally!), that while we sincerely believe in
our duty to share information with the public, we also face economic
realities and also have the right to control access to, and use of, our
objects and images. Frankly, I think the Internet age has spoiled
everyone-we think everything should be immediately available and free. That
just isn't ever going to be universally possible. And if you want the
museums holding the artifacts of our culture to survive, and go on
preserving, storing, studying, collecting, and exhibiting those artifacts,
you will have to allow them to raise money to allow them to go on with that

Alden O'Brien, working at the DAR Museum, speaking for herself and not
officially on behalf of the DAR or the Museum


Subject: copyright - museum point of view
From: Joan Kiplinger <>

Newbie -- I don't begrudge the pay-for-photo museum policy. Some museums
will work with you. When I was writing vintage fabrics book, there was a
gown I desperately coveted. Museum wanted $150. This was too much for my
pocketbook, especially for a photo which I couldn't use again nor would
likely ever have further use for it.

Another museum understanding my situation, gave me a huge blanket
discount on several photos I wanted to use. I think it was $40 for 3 for
up to 10,000 copies, well worth the price. Another museum was kind
enough to let me use a photo without charge as long as credit line was

I understand museums have different overheads and those budgets would
affect their fee policy. If it helps museums to stay in business, then
their fees are a necessary part of operations.


Subject: RE: Navajo Rug History
From: "Judy Anne" <>

Yikes I mistyped.

"Here is some history of Navajo quilts including the difference in
regional quilts and what the Navajo went through" should say "Navajo

I guess I just have a bad case of quilts on the brain.

Judy Breneman


Subject: RE: copyright - museum point of view
From: "Candace Perry" <>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:57:04 -0400
X-Message-Number: 6

I have to tag on here -- and I thoroughly agree with Alden on all points --
but I will also second the notion about any large publisher who is looking
for a break -- no and no. That includes large, well-endowed universities
looking for a break. Come on -- we are small and insignificant, and someone
publishing with Yale wants a freebie? Uh-uh. I know they don't have a lot
of funds but pul-leaze...
Also (and I know no one here is guilty of this) a little niceness goes a
long way. I don't have a department here making the decisions, there's
generally me and maybe the boss or the committee, so be nice about your
request! Yes, I am arbitrary sometimes. I apologize in advance but I am
And then there's always the person who thinks it's good publicity for us to
let them use our image in the East Jabib Quarterly Review of Spinning
Wheels. Eh.
What I do like is a reciprocal relationship with other institutions, and I
will gladly provide images without charge to other museums/historical
societies/scholars who will return the favor at some point in time. But I've
had trouble with this too, as sometimes the big boys come calling, want
something for free then go out and raise tons of $$ for whatever exhibit or
publication and we get nothing (I speak from experience, and no, I don't
understand and refuse to understand). And on top it, sometimes you do a ton
of work for these characters and they send you a letter and saying we've
decided not to use your piece (now this is just me b***hing and moaning).
Candace Perry


Subject: Block ID
From: "Bill" <>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:41:30 -0400
X-Message-Number: 7

Hi All,

I'm looking to identify 25 blocks in an album quilt, and posted the first
one in my blog today:,_details....html

If you have seen this pattern anywhere, whether in quilts or other
decorative or folk art objects, please send me a message.


Subject: Houston Rooms

Hi -

I hope everyone is enjoying a relaxing summer.

If anyone is interested in picking up a room at the Hilton Hotel for
Houston Festival, October 13-18, 2009, please email me off list for details.

Thanks, Deb Roberts


Subject: re: Men's references to women's quilts
From: Gaye Ingram <>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:24:35 -0500
X-Message-Number: 9

Karen, I suspect the written records do not accurately reflect the value men gave to quilts their wives made, particularly in rural and frontier areas where "journals" tended to be business and financial accounts.

I believe men did take pride in special quilts, however. My father, born in the first decade of 20th century in a very rural area, loved the Seven Sisters quilt his mother had made as well as another which was never identified by a name. I've heard great uncles talk about the time their wives spent on a given quilt or take pride in the number of pieces in it. And I certainly know a lot of men now who take pride in the quilts their wives make but who do not keep diaries, write letters, or otherwise leave a print record of the value they assign the work.

I also find inferential evidence. I think of one of the women interviewed in "The Quilters."(I think) She said her mother loved red but never had much for her quilts. One day after she had been planning a quilt and going through her fabrics, the woman's husband hitched up the wagon and they all went into town. He walked into the dry goods store, had the owner pull down a bolt of red fabric, and bought the whole bolt. I doubt that man would have written about that even had he kept a journal, but there is no questioning his interest in his wife's quiltmaking.

Beyond New England and the Atlantic seaboard, literacy was low for much of the 18th and 19th centuries. More could read than could write.



Subject: copyright time limit
From: Laura Fisher <>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:24:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 10

So much on copyrights when you google, don't have time right now to absorb
all, so just a quick copyright question, friends -- for written material. w
hat is the time frame after which a copyright is no longer in force--32 yea
rs, 17 years, 95 years. Is there a general rule of thumb concerning U.S.
published written material as to how long the copyright is in force??? I s
aw soemthing about "after 1978" which would figure out to the 32 year time
frame I remember. Thanks for the help.

Laura Fisher


Subject: re Cinda's Non-Quilt Passions query
From: Gaye Ingram <>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:33:00 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11

Some Non-Quilt Passions

1. Teaching: I love to teach. Literature and writing specifically, but it
only the substance that I love. It the exchange of information an
d the way it
happens, almost always as a sort of epiphany that results from lots of prev
and seemingly unrelated epiphanies, orchestrated by a teacher and learner

experience. Anybody who has ever taught can recognize it: it shows on face
With fMRIs, we know it also lights up the brain, igniting chemicals that se
neurotransmitter abuzz and give real pleasure. I hooked on both t
eaching and
learning, the pleasures of both.

2. Gardening. Process---that what people say about people who lov
e teaching:
that they love process more than product. And gardening is in the same leag
You99re always thinking, Okay, if I just moved that to the
side garden and
shade,A6.. If you love horticulture too94and I do
94you99ve always got a brain full
of new species or varieties to try or to think about. Old garden roses,
camellias, azaleas, hydrangeas, and tough-as-nails passalong perennials and

natives that give more pleasure than they require work.

3. The Iliad, Absalom, Absalom! by Wm. Faulkner, Shakespe
are tragedies and
history plays, Milton Paradise Lost and
Lycidas, Huck Finn, Keats99 three
great odes of 1819, and John Donne, Robert Frost and Em
ily Dickinson
poetry. Plus the KJV Bible. Forever new.

4. Booksbooksbooks, as Linda Laird said. Last few years I99ve been r
eading lots
of American/Southern political and cultural history to 1860, Southern and

Midwestern women history, historiography, the new brain studies,
religion, travel accounts of visitors to America pre-1860, British
trans-Atlantic world of 18th century and its effect on us, garden history a
how-to, cultural and migration studies, Pakistan/Bangladesh/the Bengali reg
the Waugh brothers99 books, and the wonderful crazy fiction of Charl
es Portis,

5. Embroidery---crewel, textural needlepoint, in my own designs. Love playi
with different kinds of thread and canvas, watching a design grow. Nearly

everything I do is some how memorial, in the happy sense. I wonder if that
not true of most people.

6. Ordinary people who can make things and the things they make, who know

things, create.

7. Family stories: they tell so much, embody so much passion.

8. Music---Mozart---especially the piano concertos, Beethoven, Donezetti

English operas, the four-square Bachs that settle the min
d; Celtic and
American bluegrass fiddle music; Cole Porter; Texans like Towns Van Sant an
d his
crowd , Hank Williams and Patsy Cline,

9. American Architecture, from the venacular to the academic. Good architec
where someone creates a building that incorporates place, time, culture and
need for beauty and practicality in everyday life. If I were a house, I
9 be
Fallingwater (PA) or Asphodel (LA) or a dogtrot house made from heart pine

10. Driving trips. I cannot understand people who only fly into cities and
only city things. I cherish long days just driving the backroads of PA Amis
country, smelling the smells, buying jelly from children who look you strai
in the eye and make perfect change, seeing laundry billowing on clothes lin
dooryard flowers. Or floating down fiords off the St. Lawrence supposedly

looking for seals. And the Flint Hills of Ks---I dare not start about them.

Discovering a gem like Columbia, Indiana and all the different counties in
And Lexington, KY---how can one travel east without going "through" Lexingt
and the surrounding towns? I am chided by high-flying friends about consid
Emporia, KS a "destination." But how else are you going to see Wright's
"Fallingwater," the Brandywine museum with its bronze bovine, the Texas hil
country with signs pointing down dirt roads announcing "11 Lutheran Churche
Gee's Bend, the coast of Maine or Astoria that made John Jacob Astor
and marked the end of a great trans-American highway, the
splendid isolation
of West Virginia? Litchfield, CT? smaller light-filled museums like the one
s in
Ottawa or Richmond? Ellijay, GA and the Mountain Fair? or the Valley of VA,
Smokey Mountains; storms coming up from far away across the Nebraska plains
lightning taking long steps across the low flat swamps of Louisiana toward


11. Cary Grant & Deborah Kerr, Audrey Hepburn, Community Dark Roast Coffee,
Bell Homemade Vanilla ice cream, Rat Terriers, Keith Jacobshagen
landscape paintings, Where the Wild Things Are, French ha
ndsewing and
whitework embroidery, kitchens at 5:30-6:00 PM, reds and blues, Monty Pytho
playing make-believe with children, white oak and pine straw baskets, Allan

Grow paintings of old buildings and Pat Roche carvings
and painted boxes,
old houses, Flaubert clean prose, cherry and walnut woods, altrui
sm, Carolyn
Miller East Texas accent, Chippendale, Sheraton, and French count
ry furniture,
French laces and fine linens, Dresden and Wedgwood china, a child named Mab
Davenport, passion.

Gaye Ingram


Subject: Re: copyright time limit
From: Mary Persyn <>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:06:19 -0500
X-Message-Number: 12

The answer to Laura's question isn't simple. The length of a copyright
is the Life of the author plus 70 years with variations that could make
it 95 years or 120 years. See the following.

I quote from

Works Originally Created on or after January 1, 1978
A work that was created (fixed in tangible form for the first time) on
or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of
its creation and is ordinarily given a term enduring for the author92s
life plus an additional 70 years after the author92s death. In the case
of 93a joint work prepared by two or more authors who did not work for
hire,94 the term lasts for 70 years after the last surviving author92s
death. For works made for hire, and for anonymous and
pseudonymous works (unless the author92s identity is revealed in
Copyright Office records), the duration of copyright will be 95 years
from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter.

Works Originally Created Before January 1, 1978, But Not Published or
Registered by That Date
These works have been automatically brought under the statute and are
now given federal copyright protection. The duration of copyright in
these works is generally computed in the same way as for works created
on or after January 1,1978: the life-plus-70 or 95/120-year terms apply
to them as well. The law provides that in no case would the term of
copyright for works in this category expire before December 31, 2002,
and for works published on or before December 31,

Works Originally Created and Published or Registered before January 1, 19
Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured either on the
date a work was published with a copyright notice or on the date of
registration if the work was registered in unpublished form. In either
case, the copyright endured for a first term of 28 years from the date
it was secured. During the last (28th) year of the first term, the
copyright was eligible for renewal. The Copyright Act of 1976 extended
the renewal term from 28 to 47 years for copyrights that were subsisting
on January 1, 1978, or for pre-1978 copyrights restored under the
Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), making these works eligible for a
total term of
protection of 75 years. Public Law 105-298, enacted on October 27, 1998,
further extended the renewal term of copyrights still subsisting on that
date by an additional 20 years, providing for a renewal term of 67 years
and a total term of protection of 95 years.

And as long as Disney continues to protect the copyright on Mickey Mouse
through actions of Congress, it will probably get longer.



Subject: museum POV
From: "Kathy Moore" <>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:16:49 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

Thanks to Newbie for posting Alden's comments on museum policies regarding
images, fees, and copyright. And thanks to Alden O'Brien for taking the time
to write. It's a confusing and frustrating situation, but Alden's comments
put things in the proper perspective.

Kathy Moore
Lincoln, NE


Subject: Documentary Film- "Beauty Secrets"
From: "Bill" <>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:04:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2

Hi everyone,

I'm working on a short documentary film this summer and wanted to share
the progress. The film is called "Beauty Secrets" and is a collector's
chronicle about my ongoing interest in the New York Beauty pattern.

The project is part of a workshop with NW Documentary in Portland, and is
planned as a 10-minute film, which will debut in late August during the
Homegrown Docfest at the McMenamin's MIssion Theatre. The story will
introduce the broad topic of pieced quilt making in the U.S. as seen in
the elevated example commonly referred to as the New York Beauty. It will
delve into a few possible origins of the name and the mystery behind a
badly damaged would-be masterpiece found on eBay.

A few recent blog posts have details about the film, where the idea came
from, and some of the things I'm learning along the way.

1) a recent visit with the Columbia Willamette Quilt Study Group inspired
the film:

2) some of my first footage, including very brief interview segments with
Mary Bywater Cross:

3) a discovery related to the popularization of the name New York Beauty:!.html



Subject: Photos from libraries
From: linda laird <>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:23:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3

Thank you all for the explanations. I needed your expertise. It was
very helpful and I will cheerfully contribute my dollars to use their

Linda Laird


Subject: copyrighting photos
From: Laura Fisher <>

Thanks all for the tips on copyright limits, you answered my question well.

For those of you having photos made of your work or something you own fo
r publication, a word to the wise--- hire only a photographer who does work
for hire, not one who copyrights the photo.

Even though you may still own the item, the photographer with the copyright
photocan charge a further fee to whoever wants to publish theimage o
f your stuff. This can really put acrimp inany sharing of the image
that you might want to pursue in the future, after oaying the photograph
er yourself, especiallyinpublicationsthat have little or no photog
raphy-related budget.

Laura Fisher


Subject: RE: copyrighting photos
From: "Candace Perry" <>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:27:36 -0400
X-Message-Number: 5

Laura is correct -- at a previous institution we had to ask permission
use images of very significant paintings in OUR collection. Not good!
Candace Perry


Subject: Re: copyrighting photos
From: "Bill" <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:08:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1

I think I solved this problem for myself without realizing it, and for me,
DIY is the way to go.

Today, I got a display stand, which was actually designed to hold studio
photography backdrop paper. It has two adjustable metal support poles with
folding tripod legs, and a top crossbar support pole that screws into the
top of both poles with wing nuts. I'm photographing quilts for my
documentary film with a Nikon D60 digital camera, in a loft with some
natural skylight coming from above, and it's ideal for quilts. Picks up
texture very well. There's enough light to do hand-held shooting, and
enough room for tripod if needed.

The rack is cool - worth the investment - great for events if you're a
dealer or presenter - comes with carrying case, and is pretty lightweight
but sturdy:

After photographing each quilt, all I do is transfer data to the computer,
and digitally remove any of the display stand support poles that got into
the picture. I use Photoshop. If you don't have Photoshop, it is generally
available on the design station computers at Fedex Kinko's stores. When
shooting, if the quilt doesn't have a hanging channel, I can use clips at
the top and Photoshop them out using clone stamp, etc. Pictures look pro,
but I didn't need to pay a pro or risk having a copyright issue from
working with someone who retains photo usage rights.

Subject: photographing quilts
From: Kris Driessen <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 2

Holly Knott has a nice article on photographing quilts here:

Irfanview (  ) is a great photo editing program that's free and has most of Photoshops bells and whistles, but it is easier to learn and use.



Subject: photographing quilts
From: Joan Kiplinger <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:00:42 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Nuance's Paperport is another excellent photo editing program. Mine came
with scanner but the software is available for other scanners or
stand-alone. What I like about it is that you can preview your photo, do
all the editing and then scan [create] photos-- my digital camera is set
up to download directly into scanner software; camera is set at 180
resolution so there is a sharp photo to begin with. . Once you see the
results, you can do further editing if needed.

Perhaps some of you have this program. Would be interested in your comments.


Subject: re: Men's references to women's quilts

>I believe men did take pride in special quilts, however. My father, bor
n in the first decade of 20th century in a very rural area, loved the Sev
en Sisters quilt his mother had made as well as another which was never i
dentified by a name.
And not just because they loved the quilter. My father has a blue Log Cab
in Star quilt that is completely HIS quilt. Mom had wanted to go see the
quilt exhibit at Silver Dollar City, and while there, Dad saw this quilt
and just fell in love with it. Every time they'd loop back around, he'd s
top to look at it, declaring that no, he still hadn't seen a quilt he lik
ed better. Finally Mom said, 'Well, are you going to buy it or not?' :) S
omehow, it had not occurred to him that taking it home with him was a pos
sibility. He debated awhile about spending 'that much money on a totally
unnecessary purchase'- not that he thought the amount was an unfair price
, but because, as a child of the Depression, you just didn't spend hundre
ds on something if you already had a perfectly good substitute for it at
home. He already HAD blankets for his bed, you see. We being a quilt USIN
G family, the idea of it being hung as art didn't occur to him, either. A
t long last, he did buy the quilt, and it's been on his bed ever since. F
or awhile, it was lovingly (and loosely!) folded each night and set on a
chair, but as he's aged and gotten more and more cold-natured, he now use
s it for warmth at night, along with the 'Sooey, Sooey, Pig Pig Pig' lap
quilt I made him.


Subject: New York Beauty name
From: "Steve & Jean Loken" <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:20:59 -0500
X-Message-Number: 5

I think I was taught that the name New York Beauty was given to the pattern
because the rays resemble the crown of the Statue of Liberty.
I tried piecing one once and got one block finished and decided "not in this
lifetime." That from a quilter who's hand piecing an 81-block Lady of the
Lake. It was putting the quarter-circle around the rays that did me in.
Jean Loken in MN, but raised in NY


Subject: Eagle CD
From: "Susan Wildemuth" <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:19:27 -0500
X-Message-Number: 6

I have created an Eagle Quilt CD that I am selling on my web site. This
project started off as a tribute to my dad and a way for me to document my
eagle quilts.

Somewhere along the way it changed to become what it is now -- a tad quilt
study - a tad timeline of the eagle motif in American quilts - MOSTLY quilt
exhibit. All the quilts on this CD are in my collection - no museum quilts
are included on this CD.

My computer expert (a college student) says it can be used on both PC and
Mac computers. I have tried it out at the public library and he is right.
It is done in PowerPoint Slideshow and some of you with older operating
systems might
not be able to view it. There is more information on my web site about which
computers it will work on and which ones it will not.

Please do not think you will be getting Stephen Spielberg quality or Annie
Liebowitz VANITY FAIR photographs. I did the cd myself -- you are getting
something "home-made" with photographs taken by me.

Maybe this CD will inspire you to do something like this with your own
collection – something you can create and share with your students or your
insurance man. This won't be the last CD I do -- I have others planned.

Here is the link on my web site:


This link has the computer requirement information on it.

or you can e-mail me directly if you are interested -

Less you think I am a skunk, I did ask permission to post this as I wanted
to do things, as I always do, the right way.

Susan Wildemuth


Subject: still time
From: "Cinda Cawley" <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:57:57 -0400
X-Message-Number: 7

It's not too late to sign up for the AQSG Seminar in San
CA Oct. 1-4. If you're not a member this is the perfect time to join.
addition to the paper presentations on Saturday and Sunday mornings
are exciting extras. Jean Ray Laury will be the keynote speaker sharing
perspective on the place of humor in serious work. Sandi Fox will
her four decades curating exhibits of 19th century quilts. AQSG Seminar
offers us the chance to meet and learn from the giants of the quilt

Go to the AQSG website and checkout the great selection of
centers that is still available. Those who are following the current
discussion of photography will be interested in Gregory Case's sessions,
"Understanding Image File Formats" and "Who Are You Going to Believe,
Camera or Your Lying Eyes." You can't go wrong with any of the choices.
It's amazing how much information can be crammed into the two hour

There are reasonable airfares. I'm flying from Baltimore to
Jose for $317 roundtrip (that includes all the taxes, fees, etc.) There
still rooms available at the conference rate. All this and California
Don't miss it.

Cinda on the Eastern Shore


Subject: finding Ichabod book again please?
From: "Marcia Kaylakie" <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:18:23 -0500
X-Message-Number: 8

HI All, I have misplaced the info on this book. Can anyone fill me in
please? thanks, Marcia
Marcia Kaylakie
AQS Certified Appraiser
Austin, TX


Subject: New York Beauty post
From: "Kathy Moore" <>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:22:45 -0500
X-Message-Number: 9

Congrats to Bill on the documentary. Interesting work you're doing.

I have one question. What did you mean by "elevated example" in your
statement: "the elevated example commonly referred to as the New York

I'm showing my ignorance...out there for everyone to see...but it's a new
term to me and I cannot resist asking.


Kathy Moore
Lincoln, NE

Subject: Re: New York Beauty post
From: "Bill" <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:06:32 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1

Hi Kathy,

Elevated  raised to a higher level, up on a pedestal, cream of the crop,

Of course, that's just my opinion - but I'll go out on a limb and say I
feel the NYB is to pieced quilts what the Baltimore Album is to applique.


Subject: Re: New York Beauty post
From: "Marcia Kaylakie" <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:09:12 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2

Well, I have a "non-elevated" example of a Mountain Mist New York Beauty in
my collection. Not a single point 'made it' to a point! Hilarious, but truly
beautiful from the back of a ghalloping horse! Marcia Kaylakie, who is
getting ready to go to her (gulp) 40th class reunion next week!


Subject: Trying to reach someone
From: Pepper Cory <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:08:57 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Does anyone on this list know how to reach Gail Binney Smith? I would
appreciate an off-list reply.
Am at the AQS show in Knoxville--and today's my day to walk and buy and ooh
and aah. Looking for wool thread, applique needles, strange feedsacks, and
various other textile flotsam and jetsom. What I don't need: another how-to
book unless it's on broderie perse. Am researching old/antique methods of
applique. All info welcome-y'all chime in-
cheers from Knoxville

Pepper Cory
Teacher, author, designer, and quiltmaker
203 First Street
Beaufort, NC 28516
(252) 726-4117

Website: and look me up on



Subject: copyrighting photos
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:35:43 +0000 (UTC)

I have photographed quilts and related items for some years. I have never copyrighted any photo. I feel, that since I am doing work for someone and they are paying me for the job, the photo should be theirs.

Caryl Schuetz
Woodhaven Studio
Professional Association of Appraisers -
Quilted Textiles


Subject: Re: museum POV
From: Judy Schwender <>

I ditto Kathy's thanks to all who posted regarding museum policies regardin
g images, fees, and copyright.

I should point out that the majority of the quilts in the collection of the
National Quilt Museum are made by artists who are still alive. We have
a duty to ensure that their rights are not trampled on. Thus, if we are
asked for image use, permission of the artist must also be obtained.

Re museum expenses....

Imagine that in the middle of your house you have a room that is 40' x 40'
x 15', that it is constructed of concrete ceiling, walls, and floor, that i
t has a completely separate heating and cooling system separate from the ho
use's system, that you have to keep the temperature at 50 degrees and 50 pe
rcent humidity year-round, that the shelving is of powdered steel, and that
you have to have an alarm system for this room. How much would it cost
you to build and maintain that room? That's museum storage, andNOT a
big area.

If a museum must charge to use an image of an item in their collection that
is stored in this room in orderto maintain this room, that's not such a
bad thing, now is it?

Judy Schwender
Curator of Collections / Registrar
National Quilt Museum
Paducah, KY0A0A0A


Subject: "curved seams" question
From: "Julie Silber" <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:24:39 -0700
X-Message-Number: 6

Hello All,



I tried piecing one (New York Beauty) once and got one block finished and
decided "not in this
lifetime." That from a quilter who's hand piecing an 81-block Lady of the
Lake. It was putting the quarter-circle around the rays that did me in.





Subject: RE: Trying to reach someone
From: "Vivien Sayre" <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:00:52 -0400
X-Message-Number: 7


Contact the New England Quilt Museum. They should have her contact

Vivien in MA


Subject: Re: "curved seams" question
From: "Stephanie Whitson" <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:13:02 -0500
X-Message-Number: 8


Stephanie says. . . . Yes, yes, and. . . yes.

Stephanie Whitson


Subject: old applique methods
From: "Stephanie Whitson" <>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:09:21 -0500
X-Message-Number: 9

I have a red and green with touches of gold rose wreath applique quilt
(circa 1880 probably) that is gorgeously hand quilted and NOT gorgeously
machine appliqued.

Stephanie Whitson


Subject: curved piecing
From: Donald Beld <>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:43:32 -0700 (PDT)

As you know, Julie, I do all my piecing by hand and have no problem at all
making curves work out right. I think one of the tricks is to be sure th
at you mark more than the beginning and end of your curved sewing lines--I
usually put a middle markon a Drunkard's Path block (that means 45 degre
es from one of the side straight edges).

You then pin both the front and the back to ensure that your middle of the
curved line meets correctly. Also, you must mark sewing lines. I make a
template for this that is the size of the FINISHED curve to mark both sides
. This gives me what I think are nearly perfect curves.

On different curves or longer curves, I also mark in-between points for
pinning. On a quilters ruler there are different angles, i.e., 45, 30, 6
0, etc. degrees, and these are what I use to ensure that both the front and
back of my sewing lines are lined up to provide a correct curve with no bu

Hope this helps, best, Don


Subject: Re: copyrighting photos
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:44:15 +0000

>I have photographed quilts and related items for some years. I have neve
r copyrighted any photo. I feel, that since I am doing work for someone a
nd they are paying me for the job, the photo should be theirs.

However, the copyright exists, whether you enforce it or not. It exists a
s the creator creates the work, not as a result of filing paperwork. What
you're doing is, as the owner of the copyright, giving permission for so
meone else to use your copyrighted work as they please. This confuses a l
ot of people , who believe that if they don't see Copyright 200X, it's th
eirs to use free of charge, or if they purchased a photo, it becomes thei
r property.Technically, anyone who buys a quilt book and then uses the de
signs to make multiple quilts for sale, is in violation of copyright, but
hardly anyone thinks of it that way. The purchase of the book permits yo
u to make a copy of the design (in fabric!) for personal use or personal
scholarship (on paper) but not to make a dozen copies and distribute them
, whether it's quilts at a antique mall or instructions at a class.
It's illegal for a college professor to copy a reading, and distribute it
to the class, but legal for the prof to give the students a webpage refe
rence where they can find the reading...and it's legal for them to make O
NE copy for themselves. The old days when profs would come into class car
rying bound copies of readers for sale to the class are over...


Subject: quilt books and copyright
From: Andi <>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:00:03 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

Jocelyn wrote:

Technically, anyone who buys a quilt book and then uses the designs to
make multiple quilts for sale, is in violation of copyright, but hardly
anyone thinks of it that way.

At AQS, on the copyright page we list the page numbers of that book for
which the author has given permission for photocopying so the book buyer
can, in fact, make a project. without any grief from a copying service.
I get a lot of questions from individuals wondering about this issue,
and put them in contact with the author, all of whom, thus far, have
given their permission for the person to proceed. I don't think anyone
has asked permission to make multiple copies for sale, but people have
asked if they could use a pattern or parts thereof to make a raffle
quilt. One woman made Margaret Docherty's pattern, Birds 'N Roses. It
took her three years, and when she was done, it didn't "fit" in her
house, so she wanted to sell it, and contacted us. Those are the only
commercial requests that have come across my desk to date. In most, but
not all, of our books, the copyright notice reads: Copyright, Text,
Author's Name and Date; Artwork, American Quilter's Society and Date. We
require people to contact both author and publisher when copyright
questions arise.

Andi in Paducah


Subject: copyrights
From: Laura Fisher <>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:00:05 -0700 (PDT)

Additional thoughts-- tho I have a caveat on my website that it is copyrigh
t and nothing can be copied without my permission, I see my stuff cut and p
asted into other people's writings often; one person selling patterns took
my photos ofa completed quilt on my site and used it to illustrate her p
attern on

I have loaned quilts to decorate homes for photo shoots in magazines like c
ountry living, only to see themdiagrammed and copied in a subsequent boo
k from thepublisherson creating your own folk art without even asking
my permission to do so, and with no acknowledgement as to the original qui
lt's source. I was told the photos are theirs to do with as they want.

An early NYC quilt photog with a frequent byline in folk art books would of
ten sell his photos of your stuff and place them whereever he wanted withou
t having ever to consult back or get permission from the object's source.

So, be careful who you hire, and if you have a personal design worthy of pr
otection, please make sure to copyright it before publishing, so at least i
f someone uses it latyer without your say-so, you have recourse to get some
monetary compensation for the use of your work

Laura Fisher.


Subject: Julie Silbers post re NY Beauty
From: "Kathy Moore" <>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:03:00 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3

Julie, I've made the so called "New York Beauty" block a number of times. I
don't find it particularly difficult if the section with the points is paper
pieced. That's what did the trick for me in getting sharp points. Easy

The curved seam was no big deal for me either, but I come from a dressmaking
background and I've pieced gussets since girlhood. (Don't you just love

I can understand why quilters who don't have experience sewing small pieces
and inserts would be put off. It can be daunting. But as with all things,
practice is the key to perfection.

Looking forward to reading other people's stories.

Kathy Moore
Lincoln, NE


Subject: Re: ****** copyrights
From: "Stephanie Whitson" <>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:39:47 -0500
X-Message-Number: 4

Sadly, in the digital age, I don't think this problem is going to go away.
People who are not particularly creative just don't "get it" when creative
people defend their intellectual property.

Does anyone on the list own a Kindle, the book reading device? Authors who
defended their copyright have been called greedy and more by customers who
feel that since all they do is push a button and they don't get a "real"
book, it should cost a dollar. What these folks (those who steal quilt
patterns, etc.) don't seem to understand is that the cost to the person who
created the end product is the same whether it's downloaded or purchased at
a book store or photocopied or scanned or photographed or whatever.

And they also don't seem to "get it" that those of us who actually try to
make our living creating this stuff feel like we should be paid for our
labor. . . and not have it stolen.

The very people who would be outraged if someone stole an actual "thing"
from their home don't often understand that it's the same thing for a
musician who wrote a song or a writer who wrote a book or a quilt designer
who created a pattern.

But I don't know that this will ever change. The creator must be ever
vigilant. It seems to me it's just part of the job.
Stephanie Whitson