97200 - 97202

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 06:33:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AJSNGSaol.com To:   Hi Carla and all,   Don't forget that you can usually get books via the inter-library loan system, and it's much less expensive to do this rather than borrow from others and pay alot of postage to mail and insure books both ways.  I've done this for several quilting books that I wanted to look at before considering buying.  Just go to your local library and they have forms that you fill out for the loan.    Hope this helps,   Nancy Sentipal in Virginia (where it is unseasonably chilly--and I'm NOT complaining!)   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:46:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Quiltfixaol.com To:   But then again, why should we assume that all quilters have the purest motives, while TV historians (and these whom I was watching we *interviewed* by the TV show and are respected in their field) are suspect?  I mean, quilting was romanticized to sell patterns earlier in the century.   ALan   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:02:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Quiltfixaol.com To:    Drat.  Did what I promised myself I wouldn't.  HP, if the previous post seemed a bit curt, I apologize.  I wrote and sent it immediately.  Usually I save posts an entire day before sending, so I can re-read and revise.    Also, I meant to say earlier pattern sellers tended to *over*-romanticize.  We all romanticize to one extent or another.  So let's not fight over that point, OK?  I basically just wanted to say that we cannot automatically hold suspect other historians for their "hidden agendas" without doing the same to ourselves.  Fair's fair, and everyone is human, whether we like to admit it or not.   And for the record, I get myself into trouble, and wade into the fray on other lists too.   Alan   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:49:43 -0400 From: Merry May <gridgeesalgorithms.com> To: QHLcuenet.com   I have to wholeheartedly agree with Brenda's post about acknowledging that myths seem to be here to stay in the quilt world, and that it's up to us to CONFIRM that they are romantic MYTHS until they can be proven or disproven.     My personal pet peeve with the myths is the one about the "intentional flaw."  Why would anyone be so pretentious as to claim to have made their quilt so "perfect" that they HAD to include a flaw in it??!!  Think about this for a minute.  Have any of US ever made a perfect quilt?  I DON'T THINK SO!   Being of the human race, it's my policy to screw up at least once a day.... and of course, that includes whatever project I might be working on!!  <G>   ... and now, back to lurkdom.....   Merry May (a.k.a. Inspector Cluesew)   :-) Schoolhouse Enterprises gridgeesalgorithms.com http://quilt.com/GG   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:33:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue <erroofalpha.wcoil.com> To:   Check out the coupon section of your Sunday paper. I have a coupon for Northern Quilted (Knitted) Tissue. Guess they didn't get all the ads changed.   Sue in NW Ohio   ------------------------------   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: HPQuiltingaol.com To:   I'm grateful that Northern tissue isn't really knitted. All those holes would definitely cause problems!!   Penny(HPQuiltingaol.com)   ------------------------------     

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:24:25 -0700 From: Frank & Inge Stocklin <stocklinerols.com> To:   Since everyone is probably tired from sifting thru myths and facts can I add this little footnote.   From all these messages, I hope we have learned a lesson that if we put symbolism into our quilts, that we will also document the meaning, hopefully on a label on the back.  This will save a lot of quilters from doing a lot of research and guess-work 100 years from now!   I do enjoy reading all the comments!  Regards, Inge   Visit my web page... still haven't learned how to make 2 corrects on my page - any help out there. http://www.erols.com/stocklin/   ------------------------------ ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:54:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Palamporeaol.com To:   Good response Kris.  I think we all have to remember that there was not a quilt rule book and if there was a standard of that time it was like we still hear ------ rules are made to be broken.  So I think the center of log cabins mystery was buried along with the makers.  Any good research projects going on out there?  Let us hear from you.  Lynn in NC   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:15:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Palamporeaol.com To: Q   If a quilt top already has brittle fabric in it from a fiber science standpoint don't wash it.  You are 99% sure it will ravel or  threads will fall out.  Not sure what the buttermilk reference is to----I thought that was to brighten a quilt. Just use the quilt in a manner which will not allow it to get dirty, because pulling, tugging, and wrapping up in will also send the brittle threads to cracking.  When quilting old fabric I would think that using larger stitches is needed in most cases unless the fabric is extremely strong. I have been told by an expert in the field to never quilt tops made prior to the early 1900"s.  This is because looks can often be deceiving, and strong looking fabric can often fall apart under the stress of those sought after tiny stressful stitches. Lynn in NC   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:56:14 -0500 (CDT) From: celmoreksu.edu To:   I will be attending the QRS meeting in Omaha and will be doing appraisals at the meeting. Carol Elmore AQS Certified Quilt Appraiser Manhattan, KS   On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 QuiltFixeraol.com wrote:   > Would like to hear from any and all who are going to the QRS meeting in Omaha > in September.  Also from people who are attending Barbara B.'s fabric > indentification class right afterwards.   Please E-mail me at > QuiltFixeraol.com > >   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:55:37 From: diddecyberport.com To:   At 12:47 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >One of my students inquired recently as to whether or not I had ever heard of >"mud dyeing" in the Appalachian region. She said that her grandmother told >her that they used to dig a hole in either red or yellow clay here in >Alabama. They would fill the hole with water, put in the fabric and leave it >there for one week to dye it. Then they'd cut it into shapes and quilt it. (I >suppose this would be a secondary source, historically speaking). I told her >that I would research it for her and that it was certainly possible for >several reasons:   

Penny --   This form of dying is not only done in the Appalachian area.  My Grandmother, whom I learned my quilting from, used natural dyes for muslin and white flour sacks along with her wools.  Here in the southwest we have wonderful red clay that make a great dye.  This red clay was not local to where my grandmother lived, but she have brought in a large mount of this clay to use for mud dying. Along with mud dying we often did dying with herbs and flowers.   Yvonne  diddecyberport.com   ------------------------------   

 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Burney Adair <burneywf.quik.com> To:   Penny, thanks for your info. on the  book.  I posted a request earlier this week requesting information on "older piecing" and applique tecniques.  The quilt  I will replicate is a Rose of Sharon that was originally white, red, and green.  Since it was found in an abandoned warehouse, floating in a wooden trunk, it is now a soft Taupe, red, and green due to the redish clay in the north Texas - southern Oklahoma region waters.   In Lone Star, A Legacy of Texas Quilts, 1836 - 1936, by Karoline P. Bresenham and Nancy O, Puentes, there is a Whig's Defeat Quilt with "soft rosy beige" centers.  Page 42 discusses clay dyeing and book called Vegetable Dying, by Alma Lesch, pub 1970 which was a set of instructions for dying with clay.   I hope this info helps with your research.  Marta Adair   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:23:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Burney Adair <burneywf.quik.com> To:   Hello.  I don't know your name but am responding to your post regarding the Omaha meeting.  I can hardly wait to be in Omaha.  I was there two years ago but missed Albany.  I will be there with bells on and a big "Fabriholic Smile" on my face.  Truly, I can hardly wait to overload on all the knowledge.  See you there!  Marta Adair   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:01:54 -0700 From: Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrsmail.albany.net> To:   Um, guys?  Please don't debunk this myth.  It is this very myth that I tell *everyone* who looks at my quilts.  "I did it that way on purpose..."  <G>   Kris     > >My personal pet peeve with the myths is the one about the "intentional >flaw."  Why would anyone be so pretentious as to claim to have made their >quilt so "perfect" that they HAD to include a flaw in it??!!  Think about >this for a minute.  Have any of US ever made a perfect quilt?  I DON'T >THINK SO! > >Being of the human race, it's my policy to screw up at least once a day.... >and of course, that includes whatever project I might be working on!!  <G> > >... and now, back to lurkdom..... > >Merry May (a.k.a. Inspector Cluesew)   :-) >Schoolhouse Enterprises >gridgeesalgorithms.com >http://quilt.com/GG > > > >   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:49:52 -0700 From: Diane Lockwood <dclinnercite.com> To: Q   When I visited Georgia for a couple of weeks last month, I dropped in at a little clothing store near Calico Quilter in Roswell. The store had two stacks of tshirts on a table. One stack was orangish the other was a light green. Each shirt had a little plactic bag attached holding either some Georgia clay/dirt or a piece of Kudzu leaf. Yep, you guessed it...each shirt was dyed with one or the other!   Someone finally figured out what to do with Kudzu!!   Diane   ------------------------------   

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:57:53 -0700 From: Carol Elmore <celmoreksu.edu> To:   Other AQS certified appraisers will also be available to do appraisals at the Omaha QRS conference.  I didn't want all of you to think I was the only one who would be there.  I have had several of you ask if you could observe appraisals because you are interested in the certification program.  Just check with the appraiser and the quilt owner whose quilt is being appraised to make sure it's o.k. for you to observe.  Some quilt owners want their appraisals to be private and others welcome apprentice appraisers.  I hope I'll get to meet a lot of you QHLer's.  I love reading all your comments. Carol Elmore Manhattan, KS   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Baglady111aol.com To:   <<  The statement made me curious, so I'm going to an expert:  Is it true that feedsack *fabric* was also available on the bolt during the same time period as the sacks, which would mean the squares I point to in my vintage pieces as *sacks* are not necessarily from that source?   In other words, these squares could just as easily have been from the dry goods store?       >>   I am posting this inquiry to the membership of QHL  as several were also interested.. Yes, feedsacks did come in yardage as well as individucal sacks..When the sacks became so popular, both for personal interest as well as necessity, it appeared in dry good stores as yardage.  I have  a nice large piece in THE FEEDSACK CLUB'S collection..and before anyone asks..we have plenty of feedsacks available in many sizes, but nothing from the collection..Jane   --------------------- 

Forwarded message: Subj:    Jane,   I saw a note in one of the digest posts this morning...and what's with the three old digests, anyway....about feedsacks vs.myths.     The statement made me curious, so I'm going to an expert:  Is it true that feedsack *fabric* was also available on the bolt during the same time period as the sacks, which would mean the squares I point to in my vintage pieces as *sacks* are not necessarily from that source?   In other words, these squares could just as easily have been from the dry goods store?     Any input would be appreciated.   Thanks, Carla   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:39:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Baglady111aol.com To:   In following the thread of MYTH & DOCUEMENTION..what does one call docuementation?  What constitutes it?  Jane of THE FEEDSACK CLUB   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:18:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Baglady111aol.com To:   

  << At 12:47 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote:  >One of my students inquired recently as to whether or not I had ever heard of  >"mud dyeing" in the Appalachian region. She said that her grandmother told  >her that they used to dig a hole in either red or yellow clay here in  >Alabama. They would fill the hole with water, put in the fabric and leave it  >there for one week to dye it. Then they'd cut it into shapes and quilt it. (I  >suppose this would be a secondary source, historically speaking). I told her  >that I would research it for her and that it was certainly possible for  >several reasons:    Penny --    This form of dying is not only done in the Appalachian area.  My  Grandmother, whom I learned my quilting from, used natural dyes for muslin  and white flour sacks along with her wools.  Here in the southwest we have  wonderful red clay that make a great dye.  This red clay was not local to  where my grandmother lived, but she have brought in a large mount of this  clay to use for mud dying. Along with mud dying we often did dying with  herbs and flowers.    Yvonne  >> Penny, I believe that JEAN ANN EITEL posted on this thread when QHL first started..if she is following this thead, she'll join in with input..or you can email her for info.  Jane of THE FEEDSACK CLUB   JEAN ANN EITEL  <quiltmagmindspring.com> --------------------- 

Forwarded message: From:      diddecyberport.com To:      QHLcuenet.com Date: 97-07-31 13:11:06 EDT   At 12:47 PM 7/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >One of my students inquired recently as to whether or not I had ever heard of >"mud dyeing" in the Appalachian region. She said that her grandmother told >her that they used to dig a hole in either red or yellow clay here in >Alabama. They would fill the hole with water, put in the fabric and leave it >there for one week to dye it. Then they'd cut it into shapes and quilt it. (I >suppose this would be a secondary source, historically speaking). I told her >that I would research it for her and that it was certainly possible for >several reasons:   Penny --   This form of dying is not only done in the Appalachian area.  My Grandmother, whom I learned my quilting from, used natural dyes for muslin and white flour sacks along with her wools.  Here in the southwest we have wonderful red clay that make a great dye.  This red clay was not local to where my grandmother lived, but she have brought in a large mount of this clay to use for mud dying. Along with mud dying we often did dying with herbs and flowers.   Yvonne  diddecyberport.com   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:45:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Quilt97aol.com To: This was sent to me recently, I think by Stella.  My apologies if someone else sent it -- after answering them, I deleted all address info.  Then someone recommended this be posted to the forum . ..   << Hi EKarenbeth,  I have a book called  "The Romance of the Patchwork Quilt in America" and here is what I found out about the blocks you mentioned. There was no design shown for Underground Railroad when i went to the page in the index. But Slave Chain is    described this way.               "Job's Tears" in 1800. In 1825 it became the "Slave Chain" showing the    tendency of the times, when slavery and not religion was the paramount issue    of the  day.  In 1840 when Texas was the topic in everyone's thoughts this pattern    became  "Texas Tears". After the Civil War it was called "The Rocky Road to Kansas" or "Kansas Troubles" and finally it became the  "Endless Chain"    That is a whole lot of history for one block huh?     Hope this helps,   >> EKarenbeth in south TX where the rain we need fell on the industrial section of town yesterday   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:33:21 -0400 (EDT) From: HPQuiltingaol.com To: Diane: Thanks for the info. There is a gal here who sells Alabama mud T-shirts in 6 states. She got started when her clothes got stained with some of our red clay(which only the Lord could remove!). I hadn't heard about kudzu, though! WOW!   Penny(HPQuiltingaol.com)   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:44:56 -0400 (EDT) From: CToczekaol.com To:   At times I've wondered just HOW our quilting ancestors found TIME to quilt during their busy days of building lives from scratch.   I've wondered even more when the frustration of balancing crying, crawling, walking babies with colic, teething, ear infections (then toddlers, then pre-schoolers) with keeping a family together while Army Dad was deployed threatened to overwhelm me.   Quilting was a sanity saver during those years; now it is a daily joy for me.   

  Again I ask, how did THEY do it, with so many more daily chores than I could ever imagine accomplishing?     I found an answer while reading a copy of John Irwin's *A People and Their Quilts* which I found used through the internet.    On page 25 he interviewed Ethel Hall of Tennessee:   She said:   "I'd take my little babies out in the corn field where I's chopping corn when they's two weeks old.  I'd take me an old quilt and spread it down under the shade somewhere.  I'd lay the little feller down there and I'd put a cheesecloth over him when he's asleep to keep the flies and mosquitoes off-....I'd come by every two hours to feed him, then I'd go back to workin' in the field-choppin' corn, diggin' out stumps or whatever else I's doing.  They'd lay there and sleep all morning and all afternoon."    And I've worried about sending my own two little ones to our 90's daycare *playgroups.*  It puts things in the proper perspective, I think.    Carla in dry, dry, dry West Texas   ------------------------------   

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 12:32:26 -0400 From: quiltmagmindspring.com (Jean Ann Eitel) To:   i saw those t-shirts yesterday too. I was in Blueridge GA where I bought a great antique 3/4 Jenny Lind Bed with high fancy headboard for my own bedroom. My old quilts are going to look great on it.   BTW, my grandsons do a great job with the red clay dye on their summer play clothes...they love to roll around in the dirt and their mother says it will not wash out no matter what! she buys their play clothes at thrift shops cause she knows they will be ruined in at first wearing   Jean Ann Eitel, Editor QUILT Magazines

Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:27:28 -0400
From: "Miklos B. Lukacs" <mlukacswebbernet.net>
To: QHLcuenet.com

Yes, pull down that Kudzu and dye, dye. I was amazed how it took over
areas in the south. Connie L.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:20:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: HPQuiltingaol.com

I don't know about everyone else, but when I get a "we used to do this" or
"my mother/grandmother said they used to" type of story, I ask them to write
it up and sign it and send it to me. Primary documentation I tend to record
like a bibliography if it is in a published source, otherwise I have it
copied.

Penny(HPQuiltingaol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:56:49 -0400
From: "Phyllis Twigg" <ptwiggradix.net>

Jane,

I'm in the process of buying a feedsack one piece type "outfit" from an =
antique shop in southern Maryland. I mailed my check today but I have to =
go pick it up sometime this month (about an hour's drive from =
Annapolis).There's a drawstring around the "neck" of the top of a =
feedsack(actually it looks like a big running stitch and that's all.).I =
would say that the sideseams are still the bag's seams. The feedsack has =
printing on it but is basically the muslin utilitarian type bag. Between =
the legs it is just sewn in a big inverted "u" shape. I guess the =
length comes down to the knees. The sleeves are made from a faded dirty =
looking flowery type pinkish feeedsack fabric. The whole thing is quite =
crude ! (0r shall we say primitive.) I saw it for the first time about =
two weeks ago and didn't buy it but it stuck in my mind.It's around $ =
30. When I went back to the shop yesterday,the place was closed due to a =
doctor's appointment.So today I called and purchased it over the phone. =
I think the antique dealer found it in a barn. They say it is the real =
thing - that someone wore it. I'm trying to get more information from =
the owner ( it's a multi-dealer shop).=20

Does this sound to you like a slave wore it (or at least a very poor =
person) ? After I pick it up I will give you more definite =
information.I'lll let you know the words that are on the bag.I think it =
will need washing. Will that hurt it ? Maybe Orvus soap and dry flat ?=20

Well, what do you think? Hope to hear from you soon.=20

Thanks,=20

Phyllis ptwiggradix.net=20


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:05:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Quiltfixaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com

Y'know, I was thinking some more about the log cabin as it relates to the
Underground Railroad and had another thought. How long can you air out a
quilt before the neighbors notice something strange? I think that a quilt
hung out every day would end up being a red-flag to others that something
isn't quite right. Also, do you hang it on rainy/cold days?

Do you see where I'm going? I really, really think that this is a
romanticization (is that a real word?) of the quilts. It would make more
sense to build the signal into the body of a person's home.

Someone also asked about a block named Underground Railroad. If memory
serves me, Jacob's Ladder had that as another name. Never heard of Slaves
Chain (the mental images that brings up are truly awful).

And on a lighter note, my aunt gave me one of my great-grandmother's
appliqued butterfly quilts.

FYI for people in NYS - there is a display of 15 quilts (1700's and 1800's)
at the Johnson Museum at Cornell University, Ithaca, NY. Not certain about
the exact dates, but my father said it's gonna last a couple more weeks (he
even has offered to go take pix! What a guy. ) Thought you might want to
know.

Alan



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:12:50 -0700
From: Jocelyn <Jocelynmsw1.socwel.ukans.edu> (by way of Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrsmail.albany.net>)
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: Re: Block design?
Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970801190331.2e175148mail.albany.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 08:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Quilt97aol.com
> Subject: QHL: Re: Block design?
> To: quiltopiaplanetpatchwork.com, kaffee-klatschquilt.com,
QHLcuenet.com

After the Civil War it was called "The Rocky Road
> to Kansas" or "Kansas Troubles" and finally it became the "Endless Chain"

Currently, there are two blocks, Rocky Road to Kansas, which is 
reminiscent of Jacob's Ladder, and Kansas Troubles, which is made up 
of half-square triangles- one half of the block is a plain color, the 
other half is made up of a slightly smaller triangle with a border on 
the two outside edges made up of half-square triangles.

I suspect it is the former block that is the one that transmogrified 
from Slave Chain, as there's nothing 'chainlike' about the block I 
know as Kansas Troubles. <G>
Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:12:53 -0700
From: Jocelyn <Jocelynmsw1.socwel.ukans.edu> (by way of Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrsmail.albany.net>)
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: Presenting Myths as Myths, not Facts
Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970801190333.2e175fdamail.albany.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 07:39:23 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Baglady111aol.com
> Subject: Re: QHL: Presenting Myths as Myths, not Facts
> To: QHLcuenet.com

> In following the thread of MYTH & DOCUEMENTION..what does one call
> docuementation? What constitutes it? Jane of THE FEEDSACK CLUB

Jane,
The most minimal documentation contains a description of where the 
person who is recounting the story, heard it. One of my professors 
says that ANY time you're making a statement you're alleging to be 
fact, you should have a source on it. (obviously, papers for his 
class are liberally footnoted! <G>)
If the source is a book, enough information should be given so that 
anyone can find the book on their own. If it's a personal 
communication, enough information should be given so that the 
audience can judge the reliability of the source. For example, if I 
said that an Amish woman told me something about quilting, you 
wouldn't know much. Maybe she's not a quilter, and is just repeating 
her misunderstandings. But if I told you that Mrs. Ruth Yoder of 
City, State, who is locally regarded as a quilter of great 
excellence, and as THE expert on quilt history, told me that over her 
80-year lifetime, she had learned that...... you would have enough 
information to decide if you wanted to believe Mrs. Yoder's oral 
history of quilting or not. Also, if I'm using Mrs. Yoder as an 
expert, I should be ready to refer any other scholars to her so that 
they can verify I heard her correctly....instead of 'well, I don't 
know who she was...she was just an Amish woman who was standing by 
the road when I pulled up and asked for directions, and we got to 
talking...'.
The closer documentation is to a 'primary source' or an eyewitness, 
the better. Remember the game of 'Gossip' we used to play as kids, 
and how after you got a circle of four or more, the message was 
always garbled? So it is with oral history. Someone suggested that 
the origin of the legend was perhaps that the black-centered log 
cabin quilt was made for unknown reasons, but used at least once as a 
signal for the UR, as in 'go to the house that's airing the 
black-centered Log Cabin quilt'. On other days, it could have been 
a nine-patch. It strikes me as likely that it was used this way at 
least once, and perhaps a slave child remembered it so clearly that 
she told the story to her children (I know I have memories of things 
happening 'all the time' in my childhood, when they happened only 
once or twice!). But that's a jump to saying it was commonly used, or 
that black-centered quilts were MADE for that purpose. It could just 
as easily have been a blue apron, or a bowl of apples on the porch! 
<G>
The very best documentation would be someone who used the quilt in 
this way, who wrote in a diary at the time. Second best would be 
perhaps a daughter, writing in HER diary, 'Mama gave me the 
black-centered log cabin quilt, that she had used as a signal when 
she was a conductress." After that, would come a grandchild, who'd 
heard the story from Grandma, but didn't think to write it down until 
she was an adult.....
Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: QHL-Digest #141,#142, V00,#1 Confusion
Message-ID: <970801190802_985241560emout17.mail.aol.com>

Burney, that was a wonderful post on how to use our computors more
efficiently. For those adept at it, skip on. For beginners..A SUPER POST.
Jane

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:33:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: Fw: feedsack "outfit"
Message-ID: <970801193339_195410794emout20.mail.aol.com>

YOU LUCKY DUCK!! I would have LOVED TO HAVE FOUND IT!!! I don't know if it
was a slave garment..I don't know how it could be determined to be that..or a
very poor person../there were so many of each..I know of several members who
willl be DELIGHTED TO HELP YOU..and I hope you will photograph it in various
positions to get a good shot of it at all angles..and share..I for one will
be happy to pay for the film/developing..I am particulary interested in
seeing the neck and the crotch..WHAT A FIND!! GOOD FOR YOU..Jane

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com, ozzgnmia.com, kaffee-klatschquilt.com
Subject: QHL: ads in newsletters
Message-ID: <970801194203_-155181713emout04.mail.aol.com>

If your guild newsletter accepts ads THE FEEDSACK CLUB is interested in
placing an ad. Please email me privately and give name of person to contact
(hope they have email) and the cost, if any. I am also looking for the
names/addresses of program chairs for a new concept in programs offered to
guilds. Thank you..Jane of THE FEEDSACK CLUB

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:07:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: log cabin
Message-ID: <970801210711_1913429073emout16.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-08-01 19:28:46 EDT, you write:

<< How long can you air out a
quilt before the neighbors notice something strange? I think that a quilt
hung out every day would end up being a red-flag to others that something
isn't quite right. Also, do you hang it on rainy/cold days?
>>
I thought I had posted this before but perhaps I had done it privately..from
what I have read oh so many years ago..they would let the "safehouse" know
what night they would 'HOPE' to arrive..and this often created a problem if
they were detained..because then all bets were off..the quilts were aired
daily, just as they were by my aunt who lived on a farm..I spent many summers
there, and there were NO bed wetters among us..but EVERYDAY IN EVERY KIND OF
WEATHER..she tossed the bedding (not sheets) over the rail of the upstairs
porch..the porch ran off the hallway..ran the length of the house. And I can
remember the wonderful fresh air smell as we pulled those covers up around
us..A SMELL YOU DON'T GET WITH A DRYER>> Now, for the bed wetters..they
DEFINETLY aired and Dried them everyday..They were only washed once or twice
a year..NO MATTER HOW MAY WETTINGS!!

Back to the trip..there was a chain of people involved..and not all safe
houses were in the same neighborhood..and many houses WERE NO WHERE NEAR
other homes..had I wanted to use my farm in VA..I can';t see my nearest
neighbor..and I could slip thru the woods til I came out on the main highway,
3 miles away..infact, if it was'nt for taking down a few fences..I could
drive it!! My farm is in the Blue Ridge MTS of VA.. so we aren't talking
walking around the mall..

Don't any of you remember reading/seeing movies of the underground in France
and other countries who helped our GI's?? They had signals. I talked with a
guild member at one of my lectures in FL who was a teacher..she had used
quilt patterns to tell her children (students) history..an elderly gentleman
came to pick up his g.child one day, saw the different quilt patterns on the
wall and focused on THE HONEYBEE..tears began to stream down his face..he was
overcome with emotion, walked over to the teacher and patted her face, turned
and walked out..she learned later that the German Jewish man had found his
way to safety thru the underground..and the signal that they could get help
for escape was a HONEY BEE PIN..much like a masons/ Elks, Rotary pin..

so this brings me to another section of what we have been talking about..MYTH
& DOCUEMENTATION..when I was a child, my g.mother and I were walking around
the side of her house and there was a X written with chalk. I reached to
rub it off and g.ma grabbed my hand and said, "NO, NO, JANE..that has to stay
there so that hobos will know they can find a meal here." it was a signal
put there by hobos..and if it washed off, g.ma kept chalk to re-mrk it..they
would tap at her back door and she would fix a full dinner for them..they sat
on the back step to eat and drink..and she packed a bag/bottle of water for
him to take on his journey..I was NOT allowed to go out and talk with
him..and in cold or rain, g.ma's porch was closed inn (a kitchen pantry) and
he was allowed to come in as far as there..NO FURTHER.. Now, because this is
NOT WRITTEN (til now) tis is not in a book, in a text book. It is not
docuemented..so DID IT NOT HAPPEN? Did the gentleman from Germany NOT find
recoginze the pin leading him to safety?? DID NEITHER OF THESE EVENTS TAKE
PLACE?? When people who say they did not quilt on the Oregon Trail because
no letters/diaries were found..no written word..say it was done..WHAT ABOUT
THE PERSON WHO COULDN';T WRITE?? 

Jane of THE FEEDSACK CLUB..who appreciates docuemented history and LOVES
myth and folklore.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 09:17:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Diane Krall <dkrall.inmuincolsa.palni.edu>
To: Baglady111aol.com
Cc: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: signs/signals
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.94.970802091402.3592A-100000ash>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

To all of you following the thread about safe houses and signals, I read
with interest Jane's last missive on hobo signs. I have found this
information published in: SYMBOLS, SIGNS & SIGNETS by Ernest Lehner (NY:
Dover, Publications, 1969; unabridged reprint of 1950 ed.

Diane Krall
Indy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:54:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: NelBruaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: QHL-Digest #141,#142, V00,#1 Confusion
Message-ID: <970802115434_917888844emout06.mail.aol.com>

Confusion is good for bringing out the helpful people!

Thanks Burney for your methods and suggestions (8-1-97) to help make time
more efficient and enjoyable on the internet.

Nel in Pittsburgh - learning lots under partly cloudy and warm skies

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:27:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOCELYNMdelphi.com
On 1-AUG-1997 17:06:27.2 Quiltfix said to JOCELYNM
> Y'know, I was thinking some more about the log cabin as it relates to
>the Underground Railroad and had another thought. How long can you
>air out a quilt before the neighbors notice something strange? I
Alan,
Someone mentioned earlier that you'd HAVE to hang out your quilt if you
had a child who was a bedwetter......<G> So maybe people were just so used
to seeing quilts hanging out, they didn't notice the pattern. Also, it was
my understanding that the Underground Railroad was NOT a regular pathway,
that slaves were taught the route of before they left home. Rather, it was a
series of houses, some of which were active on a certain day. You went to
Jones's house, and Jones would tell you where the next house was...after
sending his son ahead to make sure that there wasn't a last-minute
emergency. So the conductors could opt out of receiving 'passengers' if
there were a family emergency, if they had company, etc. And Jones was
responsible for keeping his 'passengers' until he could verify that there
was a safe house within a day's journey. So if a house were using a
particular quilt as a signal, it wouldn't be hung out every day...only the
day after Jones sent the word that he was sending passengers.
> romanticization (is that a real word?) of the quilts. It would make
>more sense to build the signal into the body of a person's home.
Suppose a conductor's house was not significantly different from his
neighbor's? They didn't use the variety of architectural types and colors
that we use, and if it were a poor area, there might not be significant
decoration of the house. In winter, plants couldn't be used as identifiers.
Also, I think the temporary signal makes more sense...in that if the
paterrollers showed up, the woman could just 'quit' airing her quilt....as a
signal to the arriving slaves that the house was no longer safe. If the
signal were permanent, the slaves would just walk into a trap, and trap the
homeowners as well.
I'll bet there were LOTS of signals of ordinary things that were
identifiable at a distance, but that didn't scream 'look at me!'. Airing
quilts, among them. But I DO doubt that there were quilts made specifically
for that purpose. After all...the slaves had to approach the house
stealthily. How close would you have to be, before you could see the color
of the center square of the Log Cabin? <G> By the time you could tell for
sure, you'd've already been in the yard!

Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:27:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOCELYNMdelphi.com
To: dkrall.inmuincolsa.palni.edu, Baglady111aol.com, QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: signs/signals
Message-id: <01ILYPYF09XU8Y5RV4delphi.com>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On 2-AUG-1997 10:21:24.6 dkrall.inmu said to JOCELYNM
> To all of you following the thread about safe houses and signals, I
>read with interest Jane's last missive on hobo signs. I have found this
> information published in: SYMBOLS, SIGNS & SIGNETS by Ernest Lehner
>(NY: Dover, Publications, 1969; unabridged reprint of 1950 ed.
Diane,
Does it also list the 'smiling cat' sign? I've heard it meant
'kindhearted and generous lady lives here'.
My mother says that stray cats have chalked the sign of the smiling
hobo on the side of MY house.....<G>
Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 12:27:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOCELYNMdelphi.com

On 1-AUG-1997 21:08:52.8 Baglady111 said to JOCELYNM
>FURTHER.. Now, because this is NOT WRITTEN (til now) tis is not in a
>book, in a text book. It is not docuemented..so DID IT NOT HAPPEN?
>Did the gentleman from Germany NOT find recoginze the pin leading him
>to safety?? DID NEITHER OF THESE EVENTS TAKE PLACE?? When people who
>say they did not quilt on the Oregon Trail because no letters/diaries
>were found..no written word..say it was done..WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON
>WHO COULDN';T WRITE?? Jane of THE FEEDSACK CLUB..who appreciates
>docuemented history and LOVES myth and folklore.
Jane,
It IS documented....when you record when you heard it, and where, and
what you were told. <G> Now, it would be a higher level of documentation if
the elderly man had written it, or your grandmother, because of the
'straight from the horses' mouth' or eyewitness factor.
As for people who can't write...that's the difference between knowledge
and wisdom, I suppose. I know some cultures put such emphasis on memory,
that their wise persons CAN recite the stories in exactly the same words
every time. BUT....try talking to someone else in your family, and see how
they tell family stories differently. Example of this at my recent family
reunion: an uncle was telling me and a young cousin about the death of a
particular relative. I had heard the story before....and the last time I
heard it, this uncle had told me that the relative had died of a mysterious
but socially unacceptable disease (VD???) THat part of the story got left
out. Kyle's memory of this relative will be that he died of old age, or a
heart attack or something, because he was deemed 'too young' to hear 'the
truth'. <G> I wonder how many family stories *I* know, that had important
details left out, because I was 'too young'. I know there are things that
HAPPENED in our family, that my sisters and I remember quite differently
from our parents, AND each other. So that's the problem with oral
history....you don't know how much of it has been changed by the witnesses.
Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 17:47:09 -0700
From: arleneggicanect.net
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: [Fwd: "QB" The Quilters]
Message-ID: <33E3D50D.322Bicanect.net>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3E834C5948D2"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------3E834C5948D2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hope you don't mind my forwarding a post to other lists, but thought
there may be interest among QHL members who are not on the other lists.
We are trying to get the play "The Quilters" on TV.
Arlene
arleneggicanect.net


Co

I am sending this note to the various groups I belong to so some of you
will not have seen the note if refer to but the thought is the same for
all of you.

Earlier today Arlene posted about her attempt to get a production of The
Quilters on television. She had written to Lifetime and had encouraged
others to do the same. After a considerable time with no response she
was questioning where to try next. We have discussed the following and
would like to encourage all of you to write with a similar request.

I got to thinking about who best to do this production and the first to
come to mind waas Hallmark Hall of Fame. To me The Quilters is in
keeping with the family type of movies that they have done in the past.
I think it might be a good idea to stress in whatever you write that
this is not a play only for quilters but rather a story of pioneer life
as told be quilters. I know many of you are much better with words than
I am so just let them know what the play means to you and how it relates
to life and not just to quilting.

There are many of us who would love to see this production again and the
best thing about Hallmark Hall of Fame movies is that they are later
released on video tape.

I hope that many of you will send a note off to Hallmark.

They have a web page for their movies at

http://www.republic-pictures.com/republic/htms/hallmark.htm

At the bottom of the page is a selection for 'mail room' where you can
just click and email to them. If you go this route you will find the
email option under general inquires. If you just want to email the addy
is republicsegi-mail.com

-- 
Janet Shurts
jshurtsocslink.com


Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 21:05:11 PDT
From: John & Cinda Cawley <cawleyepix.net>
To: QHLcue.com
Subject: QHL: Thanks
Message-ID: <Chameleon.970802211544.cawley.epix.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Thank you everybody for your good wishes on the birth of baby Jack. He 
seems to like his new family who all adore him. This morning he entered 
his first quilt show at the Moscow Country Fair. "Goodnight Moon" will 
hang at the show August 7-10 with Jack's name as owner. The Fair is the 
largest summer event in the Poconos and the quilt show is a very old 
fashioned one. People just show up with quilts on the appointed day; the 
organizers (a truly saintly group of women who have done this job of 20 
years) never know how many quilts they will get, but, somehow, it's always 
enough (over 100) and there are usually some beauties. My other entry is 
called "Gaudeamus Baby." For those of you whose Latin is rusty that means 
"Let Us Rejoice." It's my interpretation of the Gaudy Dutch quilt 
tradition of PA.
Cinda

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:27:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: CATHYANNEaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com, HPQuiltingaol.com
Subject: Re: QHL: Grandmas & Quilting
Message-ID: <970802222701_-1574478122emout15.mail.aol.com>

Hi! I'm new to QHL and have been enjoying all the posts. In 1985 I
started quilting with lessons from some of the Pioneer Quilters in Eugene,
OR. My love for quilts their patterns, fabrics and stories soon became a
passion: I read books and magazines; went to lectures and shows; took classes
and began to collect old quilts. Little did I know where this passion came
from!

Now to the story I would like to share with all of you. 

In 1993, at the age of 44, I found out that I was adopted. It was a
secret they never intended to tell me. Without hesitation, I decided to
search for my birth family, and in June 1994 I set out to find them (The
search is a book in itself; but for now, I will jump to the last few
months).

I found that my birth mother had run off to Reno and married at the age
of 16 to my birth father age 17. (This is 1948). The families had the
marriage annulled; and, he went into the airforce and never looked back, so
to speak. Well, I was born 9 mos. later and was placed for adoption without
my birth father or his family knowing anything about it. Through the
Internet, I found names and telephone numbers that led me to him. We did DNA
testing and we matched! Plans were made for a family reunion to take place
the week of my 49th birthday (which was last week, 7-25). The feelings are
too overwhelming to explore here, but I want to share a wonderful present
with you. 

As I've searched, I've asked "who quilts in this family?". I never
could find these roots until now. At my birthday party/reunion, I opened a
large box with a beautiful quilt inside, just for me. This is the letter
that explains the quilt:

THE FORTY-NINER'S QUILT
This quilt was hand pieced by Grandma (Jetty) Wilcher, sometime in 1985.
One of her favorite quilts.

Ethel Johnson (Granny), Leota's mother-in-law ( Leota's my Aunt), added the
print and white border to enlarge the quilt.

Chyrel Riley, Marlow Oklahoma, a friend of the Johnson's, hand quilted it.

Fred (my birthfather) and Carolyn (his wife of 48 years) made the continuous
binding strips and finished the quilt in June 1997.

You can call this a "community project" to have it ready to give to you for
your forty-ninth birthday July 25, 1997.

A YEAR TO REMEMBER!

* Note *

Grandma Wilcher always said, "A handmade quilt has to be pieced by hand".

Granny Johnson always said, "If God wanted a quilt to be pieced by hand, He
would never have invented the sewing machine". 
*
history bt C. Wilcher

My own personal note: With tears in her eyes, my 28 year old daughter asked
if I thought that my Grandmother might have known that she was piecing this
49er pattern for her grandaughter's 49th birthday? Who can question God's
ways? We all cried and I would not let the quilt out of my arms for hours.
There have been many blessings for me on this journey, and this legacy - a
love of quilts - is a very special one. In addition, my Aunt Leota from
Oklahoma presented me with a hand made baby quilt - "baby rings". She says
this is my first birthday with them and all babies get a baby quilt of their
own. (It's my first).

CATHY ANNEaol.com
Portland, OR



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:56:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: AJSNGSaol.com
To: CATHYANNEaol.com
Hi and welcome to QHL!

Your post to QHL was probably one of the neatest that I've ever read there!
Thank you for sharing your lovely and touching life story with us! Wow!
You have some wonderful people that you can now officially call your family!

Sincerely,

Nancy Sentipal in Virginia
AJSNGSaol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:28:49 +0100
From: "Audrey Cameron" <audrey.cameronvirgin.net>
To: "Quilt History" <QHLcuenet.com>

Perhaps we should set up archives on the website with copies of the list
excerpts on recurring questions such as Underground Railroad Quilts;
Wedding Ring , Feedbags, various block patterns & so on. Of course list
members would have to volunteer to help organize these items. I would if I
had access to all the lists.
Audrey
audrey.cameronvirgin.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 08:58:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Qltldy10aol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Maybe Gladys-Marie Fry knows
Message-ID: <970803085813_-222013580emout14.mail.aol.com>

I have been going through all my books looking at log cabins, and I have two
thoughts-
!. There are quite a few log cabins with black/not red centers. Granted,
what's in books does not reflect what's out there, still, I'd bet that the
entire issue of colors and centers of log cabin blocks could probably be
reviewed/documented...who really says yellow is traditional? Are there more
yellows than not?
2. Gladys-Marie Fry, in her book "Stitched From the Soul", in a photo
caption, says "Log Cabin quilts containing black fabric often served as
signals on the Underground Railroad to identify "safe houses."" Notice she
says fabric, not centers. Gladys-Marie searched the archives of the WPA
documents, if anybody found primary documentation I bet she did. The book
says she is a Professor of American Folklore at the University of Maryland,
College Park, Maryland. Anybody have contact with her?? Anybody near there?
Beth in Maine 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:06:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: WLEDUaol.com

Jane,

Thank you very much for your insight. This is exactly what so many are
overlooking. There is a lot of emotion involved in this and sometimes I
think people are afraid of letting their emotions get involved in reality. 

Winnie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:30:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: WLEDUaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: Grandmas & Quilting
Message-ID: <970803093038_494581496emout02.mail.aol.com>

Cathy Anne,

Thank you so much for sharing with us. It makes me realize how blessed I am.

Winnie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:31:23 -0400
From: Merry May <gridgeesalgorithms.com>
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Documentation; "intentional flaw"
Message-Id: <v03007803b00a36efd2d3[167.152.156.137]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

For Kris on her post about the intentional flaw, I had to LOL when I read
your reply! Maybe THAT's how the myth got started ("Oh, that? I MEANT to
do it that way!")! It's quite possible that someone with a sense of humor
(there ARE still people who have these, aren't there??) was being funny,
trying to explain away their boo-boo! Picture it later on, when someone
questioned why the maker made this mistake in her quilt... the owner then
replies that, "She always said she did it on purpose."

I'm really enjoying the "conversation" between Jocelyn & Jane on
documentation, too! Keep it up, kids! :-)


Merry May (a.k.a. Inspector Cluesew) :-)
Schoolhouse Enterprises
gridgeesalgorithms.com
http://quilt.com/GG

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 06:50:34 -0700
From: Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrsmail.albany.net>

To the members,

I totally agree with Audrey. I have a number of ideas for this group, and
one of them is setting up web pages on the reoccurring topics. FAQ's maybe?
I do try to sort each piece of incoming mail into the appropriate mailbox so
I have begun the process. For those that haven't been there a while, check
out the QHL pages at http://www.HickoryHillQuilts.com/qhl.htm. I have
informational links there about our members - some of whom offer discounts
or other perks to members - and links to our Book Reviews page. I also have
a "whatis" page (http://www.HickoryHillQuilts.com/whatis.htm) If anyone has
any suggestions - any adding or subtracting I can be doing, or any
constructive criticism, please let me know. 

I am also looking into other directions for this group - incorporating as a
not-for-profit, for example. A convention so we can meet each other? Pins?
What else could be doing? 

Kris


At 01:28 PM 8/3/97 +0100, "Audrey Cameron" <audrey.cameronvirgin.net> wrote:
>Perhaps we should set up archives on the website with copies of the list
>excerpts on recurring questions such as Underground Railroad Quilts;
>Wedding Ring , Feedbags, various block patterns & so on. Of course list
>members would have to volunteer to help organize these items. I would if I
>had access to all the lists.
>Audrey
>audrey.cameronvirgin.net
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:00:35 -0700
From: "Kris Driessen, Hickory Hill Quilts" <oldquiltalbany.net>
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Mexican Rose
Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970803095022.0f872dfamail.albany.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

And now, on an unrelated subject, I received this inquiry from Lucinda Mayo,
quiltmaker in Guadalajara, MEXICO (mhoganvianet.com.mx)

>working on a history program here, wanting 
>to know who to ask for definite info about the origin of "Mexican 
>Rose", other (what I think are) Mexican War era patterns. Thanks!
>Lucinda Mayo
>
>
I have absolutely no information to give her. Is anyone in the group
familiar with patterns from the Mexican War?

Kris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 11:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: JZgliniecaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: Documentation; "intentional flaw"
Message-ID: <970803112602_-1273314249emout05.mail.aol.com>

Dear QHL,

The myth of the "intentional mistake" comes from the Greek legend of the
story of Arachne.

Arachne was a beautiful maid who got in a weaving contest with the goddess
Athena. They each wove cloth and Athena was so angered by the perfection of
Arachne's work that she turned her into a spider.

The idea of the intentional mistake so as not to anger the gods surfaces in
several cultures. Some Navajo weavers incorporate a "spirit" corner in their
work. Not all do so and they do not know the origin of this "myth" or custom
either. In Ikebana, A form of Japanese floweraranging, a bent twig, a
flawed leaf or the like is incorporated into the design for the same reason,
as only nature is perfect.

There is an interesting discussion on this subject in Quilts and Other Bed
Coverings in the Canadian Tradition. 1979. Ruth and Blake McKendry. Van
Nostrand Reinhold Ltd. ISBN-0-442-29778-5. Chapter 11 pgs. 109 - 116.
Other symbolism is discussed here as well.

Regards,
Julia

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Patricia Russell :-)" <WCTDPATns.net>
To: QHLcuenet.com

About those -----NOT SO PERFECT QUILTS-----
I noiticed a few comments about flaws and "IMPERFECT QUILTS". Historically
we see older quilts with a block misplaced (or it semed that way) or a piece
that seemed set in wrong... If you go back in history and especially in
early quilts, this is a message from the Quiltmaker. To all of who see it
and God to realize that we are NOT perfect and He is the only one that is
and that we are only recognizing it.
I also found that there are some indian quilt works that do this as a
IDENTITY of there work, where there is no signature or label added.
Of course a quilter could take years and years and make something that
he/she believes to be perfect but what be the purpose? I thought quilts were
made to love and cherish, isn't there something wrong when we get caughtup
in perfection??? 
I do charity quilts for homeless mothers in recovery and I know they don't
look at the quilt and criticize or inspect it they simply cuddle up and feel
good that someone cared enough to give them something, even if just a little
bit of comfort.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Quilts should be made with Love- - - -
- - - - - - - - -- - -- -- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:12:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: HPQuiltingaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Re: QHL: QHL topics 
Message-ID: <970803131238_1449937079emout05.mail.aol.com>

I love the idea of incorporating like a guild would. I know that I would
join.
Also, I have copied most of the discussions on the log cabin to a document
in Word. I sort and print it later and it goes into file folders for my
classes, research. I would love to have separate chat rooms for this if it
wouldn't dilute the wonderful sharing we have now.

Penny(HPQuiltingaol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:19:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com

Well, Kris..if you are looking down the road to non=profit..let me know..I am
looking into that now and it is a real bummer..would be DELIGHTED to connect
in with you and come under sort of like an 'umbrella"..when our guild formed
in Floyd, VA..my home in the Blue Ridge Mts..we came under the OLD CHURCH
GALLERY (local art gallery)..THEY were non and we came in under them..saved
us having to to it..

Going this extra mile, having meetings, convention, pins, (I WANT A PIN!!)
great..and as Audrey suggested..everyone who specializes..handle that
portion..PERFECT!! I would think this would help in as much that they have
the experience in that field..cause you sure wouldn't want me into
abstract/geometric. JANE

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Fwd: Good morning!
Message-ID: <970803133432_130295594emout12.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-08-03 11:48:22 EDT, pappyIndy.Net (Brenda Papadakis)
writes:

<< There is much discussion about the use of the black center
in log cabin quilts during the Civil War.
I had heard it as part of the history of Westfield, near Indianapolis.
However, Barbara Brackman disagrees. She addresses this is her
new book, saying that log cabin quilts weren't popular until Lincoln was
killed. Whether true or not, I hang on to stuff like that, because I'm an
incurable romantic. It's like Santa, and I still choose to believe:)
Now ladies, it seems not matter what I tell you, you think I surely must
know what I'm doing...I can't tell who sent this letter about folklore - I
got it twice so I'll forward this to both addresses.
>>

NOW, IS'NT THIS INTERESTING??
A quilter sent this to me, was actually looking for another Jane..but was
glad to rec'v it....

---------------------

Date: Sunday, 03-Aug-97 10:43 AM

From: Brenda Papadakis \ Internet: (pappyindy.net) To: 
dearjane-listdearjane.com \ Internet: (dearjane-listdearjane.com)

Subject: Good morning!

Dear DJ'ers, 
How are you this morning? You're letters are great and I know I'm behind
with the blocks already;)
Please, whoever sent me the folklore about signs and signals during war time
, send me more! There is much discussion about the use of the black center
in log cabin quilts during the Civil War.
I had heard it as part of the history of Westfield, near Indianapolis.
However, Barbara Brackman disagrees. She addresses this is her
new book, saying that log cabin quilts weren't popular until Lincoln was
killed. Whether true or not, I hang on to stuff like that, because I'm an
incurable romantic. It's like Santa, and I still choose to believe:)
Now ladies, it seems not matter what I tell you, you think I surely must
know what I'm doing...I can't tell who sent this letter about folklore - I
got it twice so I'll forward this to both addresses.

Also, no pictures of Jane's home have been sent anywhere - except to the
lab to be developed. I must have used the wrong terms somewhere, because
several of you think I have put them on this mailing list. I couldn't if I
wanted to - don't know how. I also wouldn't know how to get an attachment 
if you send one, but I'll learn...

One thing that will help is for you to know that Michael lives in San
Antonio and I live in Indianapolis. So, when I'm going to send him
something, it has to be snail-mail:). .

Nancee, now I'm confused - thought that was exactly how we did E-11 in
Greenville.Think I missed something, which isn't hard for me to do:) 
Anyway, it does sound like a good idea for A-3, but I already did four
melons. The NEXT time I make the quilt...:)

You know, this group has become very special and I love being a participant.
What will I do when I'm gone? Yes,you'd better believe I'm taking that
sewing machine and Row A !! If you're near Belle Grove (winchester, va) or
Gettysburg, please stop in my classroom!
And wear that pin so I can recognize you instantly!

I've taught Triangles in the quilt shop, but Belle Grove will be my first
time to do them "in public." Students always have such great tips, I can't
wait to share them with you when I return.

Please keep up the beautiful writing and stitching!

Love, 
Brenda


------- FORWARD, End of original message -------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:55:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Baglady111aol.com

In a message dated 97-08-02 12:42:16 EDT, you write:

<< omeowners as well.
I'll bet there were LOTS of signals of ordinary things that were
identifiable at a distance, but that didn't scream 'look at me!'. Airing
quilts, among them. But I DO doubt that there were quilts made specifically
for that purpose. After all...the slaves had to approach the house
stealthily. How close would you have to be, before you could see the color
of the center square of the Log Cabin? <G> By the time you could tell for
sure, you'd've already been in the yard!
>>

I am guessing you have lived in the days of washers and dryers..My aunts
never had their water pumps IN the house til in the 50's..so you can well
imagine how often quilts were washed....and at my home in VA..some of the mt
people still have a cistern outside..NO "IN THE HOUSE" WATER..

as for being in the yard..THEY TRAVEL At NIGHT..no way could they see teh
center of a quilt..but where does it say that it was the SLAVES who looked
for the quilts? a pig in the yard, a lamp in the window.??? the person
aiding them would have been the likely helper. The person to go ahead during
daylight hours..no one paying atn attention to a white person..then that
person would return to the previous hiding place and lead them to the safe
house. and probably say, "if it's a DOUBLE WEDDING RING, you went too far!!"
.I'll bet if we asked people about GI underground help in Europe..they could
tell you how our soldiers found there way to a safe house..maybe Ann Frank's
diary mentions HOW THEY found safety..how did the Jews find safe harbor? or
anyone who has had to seek refuge??

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 14:15:59 +0400
From: Xenia Cord <xecordnetusa1.net>
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: mexican War
Message-ID: <33E45A29.2921netusa1.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On the question of designs deriving from the Mexican War: That's 1846,
and it was a war of expansion for the US, created by President Polk on
some complicated issues. The US wanted the Mexican territory that
included California and the Great Basin, where the Mormons had begun to
settle in 1846 because it was outside of US jurisdiction. The US, having
just negotiated a jurisdictional boundary dispute with Great Britain in
the northwest (at the the 49th parallel, not at 54o 40', which sparked a
quilt pattern of the same name), was concerned about the British
presence in California. Mexico had for nearly 10 years refused to
recognize the independence of Texas, and claimed that any annexation
move by the US would result in war. When US attempts to have California
declare independence so it could be annexed failed, and outright
purchase through diplomatic channels in Mexico also failed, war seemed
imminent. The presence of Zachary Taylor and his US troops on the Rio
Grande inflamed the issue; when they were fired upon by Mexicans, Polk
declared this an act of invasion and agression, and the war was on.

The point of this brief history lesson is to wonder if quilt designs out
of this situation would be called "Mexican" anything. They were, after
all, the enemy. The derogatory term "gringo" comes from this war;
American soldiers sang "Green Grow the Rushes" and the Mexicans
shortened/corrupted it to gringo. Below are the "Mexican" titled designs
in Brackman, and her sources are all 20th century. 

Mexican Block #1817, Country Gentleman 1937
Mexican Rose #2937 McKim
Mexican Siesta #3526 Cabot
Mexican Star #1713, #2937, #3703
[#1713 Hinson
#2937 Ickis (Called Panama Block by Cabot)
#3703 Comfort]
No conclusions, just research information.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:11:46 -0700
From: bwblacksprynet.com (Barbara Black)
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Re: Block design?
Message-Id: <199708032011.NAA28679m6.sprynet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I found the same information that someone quoted from _Romance of the Patchwork 
Quilt_ in _Quilts in America_, by Patsy and Myron Orlofsky, page 263 (1992, 
Abbeville Press). Re: Endless Chain was originally Job's Tears, until the first 
quarter of the 19th C., the pattern was named after the seed of a plant used for 
decorative purposes in gardens. The seed is oval in shape, as is the quilt 
pattern. Originally the connotation of the name was religious, but by 1825, when 
the moral issue of slavery was on everyone's mind, the pattern became known as 
the "Slave Chain". It goes on to say that the block went on to be known as Texas 
Tears, The Rocky Road to Kansas, or Kansas Troubles, ending up as the Endless 
Chain.
Barbara Wunder Black
Ventura, California
bwblacksprynet.com
P.S. Several on this list have suggested contacting authors regarding their 
written work and their references. If their phone numbers are listed in the 
U.S., try http://www.switchboard.com to see if you can locate their address and 
phone number. It has worked for me.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:29:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: JOCELYNMdelphi.com
To: gridgeesalgorithms.com, QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Documentation; "intentional flaw"
Message-id: <01IM0CPTA5RM8WX3XNdelphi.com>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On 3-AUG-1997 09:39:27.0 gridgees said to JOCELYNM
>MEANT to do it that way!")! It's quite possible that someone with a
>sense of humor (there ARE still people who have these, aren't there??)
>was being funny, trying to explain away their boo-boo! Picture it
>later on, when someone questioned why the maker made this mistake in
>her quilt... the owner then replies that, "She always said she did it
>on purpose."
Merrie,
Considering the legends of retribution of the gods on arrogant
textile-workers who TRIED to achieve perfection are ancient in at least two
cultures I know of (Navajo and Greek), I'd guess that a lot of people have
had exposure to the myths, and have used it as a justification for not
taking it out one more time. <G> (FWIW, I refuse to take anything out for
the 3rd time, because by then, the fabrics are beginning to stretch along
the bias, and I don't have any particular reason to believe it'll be an
improvement. <G>)
I think it's been a very subtle joke over the centuries, with the REAL
quiltmakers in on the secret, and only 'outsiders' seriously believing that
a person would HAVE to make an intentional mistake! <G> But it sure is a
good reply to those nit-picky people who say, 'What happened here?' <G>
Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 15:45:47 -0400
From: Diane McGuire <dianemcgici.net>
To: antique quilts line <QHLcue.com>
Subject: QHL: natural dyes
Message-ID: <33E4DFEB.585Eici.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I bought "Colors from Nature" from Hamilton bookseller and have so far 
dyed two pieces of muslin. I seem to be really good at browns. The trick 
seems to be crunching flowers, plants in the food processor, simmering 
in the crock pot overnight, strain, simmer fabric in the liquid in the 
crock pot overnight again. I used day lily flowers and tea (or vinegar) 
to set the dye. Much richer than just tea. 

If the grass starts growing here again, I might try grass clippings to 
see if I can get a green. Natural dyes seem a lot safer than the harsh 
chemicals, and I don't think they hurt the appliances since I am careful 
to use only edible plants.

Onion skins make a nice greenish brown. I hope to try red onion skins 
soon. 

Anyone else have any ideas? 

Diane just back from three days of the Bayberry Quilt Show on Cape Cod

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:02:19 -0400
From: Diane McGuire <dianemcgici.net>

I bought some precut pieces of what I thought were feedsacks at a local 
yardsale. At the Bayberry Quilt Show there was a feedsack vender and I 
brought in my pieces hoping to match them up to a larger piece of fabric 
I could use as a border for a sampler wallhanging. He said the pieces 
were from the right era, but were NOT feedsacks as the weave was tighter 
and the treads thinner. When he showed me the difference it was quite 
clear to me. He also told me that although there were few large chicken 
ranches in New England, there were several plants that manufactured the 
fabric, so there is some feedsacking around. I guessed that it might 
still be in attics and cellars as we NEers tend to take several 
generations to clean stuff out.

My quilt show entry used repro. 30ties fabric and bleached muslin. I am 
hooked on that fabric! Last years was 1880 repros.

Diane in Massachusetts

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 18:47:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: AJSNGSaol.com
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Slaves, safe places and quilts
Message-ID: <970803184729_-937642954emout08.mail.aol.com>

Hi all,

This question is really for Jane (aka Baglady) because I know she has an
elderly friend in Virginia that has given her lots of information about
quilts and their names, etc. Have you ever talked about the story/myth/fact
that slaves looked for certain quilts on their way to freedom? I wondered if
she had heard various versions of this from HER elders, who of course would
now be long gone? 

Whether these stories are just that--stories--or whether they are true, I
find the information to be fascinating, especially when we can document the
fact that the stories or facts were passed down from generation to
generation.

Nancy in Virginia
ajsngsaol.com

[ 97203 ]