98206 - 98216

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:48:21 -0600 From: Bonnie Hunter To: scraps@eyrie.org, QHL First off....granny hated it. She wouldnt care if you took it apart! Second off....YOU like it and want to use it and would really like to requilt it so it suits your needs. Which puts your work and grannies work together! Thirdly (thirdly? Is that a word?? *LOL*) It probably isnt a museum quality type piece so I wouldnt worry that I was ruining the value of it or anything. Lone stars have been so popular all throughout quiltdom that it is doubtful you have anything remarkable in the *quilt integrity* department if you know what I mean. I would take it apart....and quilt it in a way that you would enjoy using....maybe granny would have even liked it better when you get done with it! *smiles* Just my $0.02! Bonnie Jon & Chrystine Martin wrote: > discovered a King Sized lone star quilt done in whatwas once primary > colours..Opened this puppy up...and found a note from > my mom..seems she left this for me several years ago...and it just got > "shoved" under the bed frame..Here is where I need some help.. > The quilting is and was so sparse..and apparently the batting was/is > cotton..that when it was washed..some time ago by my mom ..that there > are little and very big.balls of batting all over the place. only two > areas where the diamonds need re=stitching. According to the letter > left by my mom..the quilt belonged to my granny..and was "stitched by > some church ladies in Texas before your grandmother got married." This > dating would make it early 1900's..but I sincerely doubt that as the > pieceing is all very tightly done by machine and I seem to remember my > granny talking about "an ugly lone star " given to her by one of her > family members on a trip.. > Ok..now for the question part... > Do I have this taken apart..and re-quilted so I can use it...there is > very large stitching done with no real pattern work..the diamonds are > all stitched in a line...no definition around each..just paralled lines > crossing all over the place. > As for looks...in one of the seams I an see that the fabric has faded > substantially..this may at one time have been very bright and > "unsightly" as I recall granny saying..but I love it..nice and bright > pastelly looking.. > > Ther is only a front turn over to the back binding... > so not too hard to take apart... > Any ideas?? > -- ~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~:*:~ Bonnie Hunter

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:40:57 -0400 From: "J. G. Row" On or around July 6th I got this message from MB: >Last week I saw a fabric sample book (with most of the samples intact) for JC PENNEYs >from 1937. It was the size of a large wallpaper book and had fabrics like you described...fine lawn >plus many many more. Also had the prices, if I remember right they started at about 19 cents a yard. I >didn't buy it...but can't get it out of my mind. I wrote back and asked where this treasure was, and MB was able to tell me that it was in an antique mall outside of Lansing Michigan on Route 12, and that the book was at a booth right behind the cash register. I called the operator for Lansing information. I called Lansing information, but since I didn't have a name of a store, I couldn'[t get any help. I called 00 and gave the operator there everything I knew. She gave me the name and number of a flea market. I called the flea market. They didn't know what I was talking about, but gave me the name of an antique mall. I called the antique mall. They didn't know what I was talking about, but gave me the number of another antique mall. I called the 2nd antique mall, and spoke to Roxanne, who knew exactly what I was talking about, went and got the book, called me right back, took my credit card info and address, and said it would be sent right out. I got it today. It is actually dated November 30, 1938. It is 8" tall by 14" x 14". It is heavy as lead, but in great condition, and crammed full of all sorts of "Novelty Wash Goods for the Spring of 1939." The introductory pages with instructions for the store's buyer are priceless. I learned there that "voiles are completely out of the picture," with the exception of flock dots. Turning to those pages I saw dark blue colored semi-sheer fabrics with white flocking designs, imitating earlier and heavier weight indigo fabrics. I was instructed that one-color patterns in the soft ice-cream tones such as aqua, teal, dusty rose, and cherry were "in" , and that bold large designs in vivid colors were contiuing from the last season. The smaller stores were instructed to carry nothing over 29 cents a yard, (fabrics started at 10 cents and, in this catalog, ended at 49 cents). Each page of samples also tells the name of the mill where JC Penny bought the items on that page, and from where they had been shipped. Besides the actual fabric samples, there is a wealth of information for the quilt/fabric historian contained in this book. I've looked to see if any of the fabrics from Margaret Adair's March 1941 stash are contained in this sample book. They are not, that I can tell so far, and indeed, most of the prints look quite different. For the most part, the colors in this earlier book are far more saturated than those in the 1941 stash. Odd. Thanks, MB, for putting me on to it. Now I just have to find a place to keep it. It's HUGE! Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrow@blast.net ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:32:53 -0600 From: Kathy Gaul Hi everyone, Just recently got a mailing from one of the book clubs and saw a book I = had not seen thus far entitled, "French Textiles From 1760 to the = Present" by M. Schoeser & K. Dejardin. I am curious if any of you have = seen it, read it, reviewed it, etc. Did you think it was a good book = for reference of early textiles? I know it is on Barb Brackman's "Quilt = Detective" listing - but it isn't one that is starred as a "must have". = Anyone have comments? Secondly, who's gearing up to go to Restoration Conference this year? I = am looking forward to another great conference where I hope to see many = of you again! -Kat ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:12:00 -0400 (EDT) From: dcl924@mindspring.com (Diane Lockwood) There are so many of you who collect antique quilts that I'm hoping that some of you collect other antiques. Here's the problem. We have inherited a houseful of antiques from DH's parents. We thot we'd attach small brass (?) plates to the big furniture pieces but we are stumped on how to permanently mark the smaller items (like brass candlesitcks, dutch tobacco boxes, etc). Keep in mind that these antiques date from the early 1700s. It looks like we must use an engraving tool on the metal items tho we hate to depreciate the pieces. We sure can't think of any other way to mark them. By the time our g'kids inherit the stuff, maybe the marks won't have deprciated the items that much. Any ideas? Thanks, Diane Usually in Pollock Pines, Calif temporarily in North Georgia ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:31:48 EDT From: Tom1Glo2@aol.com People seemed interested in the recipes in my old White House Cookbook for dying fabrics. These are instructions for cottons: Black - for five pounds of goods, boil them in a decoction of three pounds of sumach one-half hour and steep them for twelve hours; dip in lime-water one- half hour; take out and let them drip one hour, run them through the lime- water again fifteen minutes. Make a new dye with two and one-half pounds log- wood (boiled one hour) and dip again three hours; add bichromate potash two ounces, to the logwood dyeand dip one hour. Wash in clear, cold water and dry in the shade Sky blue: for three pounds of good blue vitriol four ounces; boil a few minutes, then dip the goods three hours; then pass them through a strong lime- water. A beautiful brown can be obtained by next putting the goods through a solution of prussiate of potash. Green: dip the goods in home-made blue; dye until blue enough is obtained to make the green as dark as required; take out, dry and rinse a little. Make a dye with fustic three pounds, of logwood three ounces, to each pound of goods, by boilinb dye one hour; when cooled so as to bear the hand put int he goods, move briskly a few minutes, and let lie ond hour; take out and thoroughly drain; disolve and add to he dye for each pound of cotton, blue vitriol one- half ounce,a nd dip another hour. Wring out and let dry in t he shade. By adding or diminishing the logwood and fustic any shade may be had. Yellow- for five pounds of goods, seven ounces of sugar of lead; dip the goods two hours; make a new dye with bichromate of potash four ounces; dip until the color suits; wring out and dry. If not yellow enough repeat. Orange - for five pounds of goods, sugar of lead four ounces; boil a few minutes; when a little cool, put in the goods; dip for two hours; wring out; make a new dye with bichromate potash eight ounces, madder two ounces; dip until it suits; if color is too red, take a small sample and dip into lime- water and choose between them. Red - Muriate of tin two-thirds of a teacupful; add water to cover the goods; raise to boil; put in the goods one hour, stir often; take out empty the kettle, put in clean water with nic-wood one pound; steep one-half hour at hand heat; then put in the goods and increase the heat one hour- not boiling. Air the goods and dip them one hour as before. Wash without soap. I hope people find these useful. I will put the ones for wool in later. Gloria in Coastal NC

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:15:46 EDT From: @aol.com Diane - do NOT, under any circumstances, put brass plaques on the furniture. You will ruin the value. Ditto for engraving the brass pieces. ANY changes of the sort to colonial antiques will make future generations, either of the family or of collectors/curators, gnash their teeth in despair. Furniture and decorative items that old should be left strictly alone - and if you doubt your ability to care for them, they should be put on loan to a museum with the facilities to do so. The chief treasure of my family is a 120 year old Eastlake-style Renaissance revival dresser. It was owned by my great-grandmother, grandmother and mother in turn, and *everything*, from the mirror to the drawer pulls, is original. It has never been refinished, stripped, or altered in any way, except for new screws attaching the mirror and the removable drawer lining paper installed by my mother. It's in use right now for my clothes. Bob and I are planning a family in the near future, and I fully intend to pass the dresser along to the next generation. Instead of attaching a plaque, I typed up a sheet of paper listing the four owners of the dresser and as much as I knew about them. I laminated the sheet and tucked it under the drawer liner in the top drawer. This way the dresser's history is easily accessible without altering the piece in the slightest. If I have a daughter (or a daughter-in-law), she'll know who bought the dresser, who owned it, and why it started out in western Pennsylvania and ended up in Massachusetts. This is only one way of preserving an item while attaching its history. A museum, particularly one with a good decorative arts collection, should have many more. I wouldn't do a thing until I'd consulted a professional. If all else fails, see if you can get in touch with someone at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. Their decorative arts collection is superb, and their curators should know exactly what to do. Good luck! Karen Evans Easthampton, MA ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:54:15 -0400 From: "J. G. Row" To Diane, who asked about marking the antiques they had inherited: Diane, Allan and I have been collecting American antiques since we first married 33 years ago. Our home is furnished with nothing but, except for 3 upholstered pieces. Please, please, don't attach brass plates to your case pieces. Instead, take out a drawer and either write on the drawer bottom or inside the backing of the case, IN PENCIL, all the information you want to include about provenance. This is an acceptable way to record history. And please, don't touch the old finishes! Any repairs that have to be made can be recorded inside as well. We have one curly maple chest of drawers circa 1830, with the legend "Repaired by 100 years after" written in grease pencil on the rail under the top drawer. We think the makers name and date is written under a small drawer on the top, but since we can't take the top off, we can't read it .The repairer obviously did, but neglected to record the makers date. It just makes the mystery that much more intriguing. Any dealer or collector worth his salt will know just where to check the piece out (with a flashlight) looking for signatures, labels, history, and constructrion details. Why do you feel you must mark the brass and glass? If you feel the need you can put a paper label on the underside. I suggest, that you photograph everything (with a ruler or yardstick to indicate scale) and have two sets of prints made. Keep one in your safety deposit box, along with written descriptions of the items (and appraisals if warranted) and give the other to your insurance company if you will put them on a fine arts rider. If they are that valuable they should be appraised. We use our pre- Civil War stemware (flint glass) and 19th century porcelain. I couldn't if I had labels to deal with. Our kids are in their mid 20's and know about everything they will inherit. Start your kids' education now. Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrow@blast.net

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:12:00 -0400 (EDT) There are so many of you who collect antique quilts that I'm hoping that some of you collect other antiques. Here's the problem. We have inherited a houseful of antiques from DH's parents. We thot we'd attach small brass (?) plates to the big furniture pieces but we are stumped on how to permanently mark the smaller items (like brass candlesitcks, dutch tobacco boxes, etc). Keep in mind that these antiques date from the early 1700s. It looks like we must use an engraving tool on the metal items tho we hate to depreciate the pieces. We sure can't think of any other way to mark them. By the time our g'kids inherit the stuff, maybe the marks won't have deprciated the items that much. Any ideas? Thanks, Diane Usually in Pollock Pines, Calif temporarily in North Georgia ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:58:55 -0500 From: June Schumacher (by way of "Kris Driessen, Hickory Hill I am looking for some instructions on "twilling". I believe it is an old needlecraft for quilting. I understand it is done with a tapestry needle and two strands of crochet thread plus ???. The top (usually muslin), batting and backing is done all at once then the blocks are put together. Absolutely beautiful. Can you help? Thank you. June e-mail address is bsrjsch@wans.net ------------------------------ ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:29:19 -0700 From: "August, Rachel" Judy wrote..."Now I just have to find a place to keep it. It's HUGE!" I would like to offer the use of my home as a storage place for that wonderful sample book you found. LOL A friend of mine has an Alden catalog from the mid-40s. In addition to the usual catalog offerings, the catalog includes fabrics. Don't I wish I could now buy those fabrics at those prices. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Please remember to smile whenever you think of me. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:40:22 +0000 From: Carole Spencer Diane, Any markings (or repairs) to antique pieces should be reversible. For brass and other metal pieces, you can use a layer of clear nail polish, write the information with an indelible ink pen (or use India ink) and another layer of clear nail polish (after the ink is thouroughly dry). This technique doesn't work as well on wood or other more porous surfaces. You can also check with a local museum to see how they mark their pieces. Carole Spencer You wrote: There are so many of you who collect antique quilts that I'm hoping that some of you collect other antiques. Here's the problem. We have inherited a houseful of antiques from DH's parents. We thot we'd attach small brass (?) plates to the big furniture pieces but we are stumped on how to permanently mark the smaller items (like brass candlesitcks, dutch tobacco boxes, etc). Keep in mind that these antiques date from the early 1700s. It looks like we must use an engraving tool on the metal items tho we hate to depreciate the pieces. We sure can't think of any other way to mark them. By the time our g'kids inherit the stuff, maybe the marks won't have deprciated the items that much. Any ideas? Thanks, Diane Usually in Pollock Pines, Calif temporarily in North Georgia - ---------------------------- ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:48:58 EDT From: CToczek@aol.com Hello everyone, I'm back on the net, finally, after a month of cross country adventure from Lubbock, TX to West Point, N.Y. We made it with two cars and two little boys despite an ear-ache, a virs, a hailstorm, in-law visits and mucho road work in Ohio and Pennsylvania. The high temps in the 80's here sure beat the plains, but I've been warned to watch out for August and get ready for winter! My quilts made it just fine and my sewing room is now hollerin' at me to *get back in here!* (I was delighted to find an oversized pantry in these particular Army quarters, which I immediately seized as my own! *vbg*) Anyway, glad to be back with you all. Judy, your fabric book story was exciting. I love to hear of finds like that. When passing through Little Rock for a family visit, I attended another auction with my parents. I took the time to look over the dishware (no linens this time, rats) but was surprised when the auctioneer got to a Sears/Roebuck 1900 catalog. I bid and got it for only $2.00 and should have been suspicious then. Well, just award me the Dunce cap, because it was actually a 1971 REPRINT of the catalog, done back when the folk revivals were underway. *LOL* Still interesting to look through, even if it was a reprint, not an original.....and I at least paid less than the original cover price! The good news from that event is that I did get the dish I wanted, a medium- sized bowl from the Grace Snyder quilt pattern dish set. Too bad there was only one bowl or I would have tried for the whole set. A friend in Lubbock found the whole set of dishes in Iowa on a quilt tour last summer. I think I was the only one at the auction who knew the significance of the pattern. Anyone else know the dishes I'm talking about? And an approximate date the pattern circulated? This is the Grace Snyder of Nebraska/one-inch square designs/*No Time on My Hands* book that Kris at Hickory Hill carries. Best wishes, Carla who used to be in Lubbock, now at West Point on the Hudson ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:37:27 EDT Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:59:58 EDT Someone called me for advice today about the value of her grandmother's Bates Heirloom bedspread called "George Washington's Choice". It is a handwoven, limited edition in its original box with a " Certificate of Registration for Original Owner." Date 1958. Was this a clever gimmick by Bates or does the bedspread have a collectible value? Any info appreciated. Cathy ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:16:02 -0400 Friday morning I am taking a class with Fons and Porter on doing a string star quilt - something I have always wanted to do. So tonight I am cutting strips in preparation. I gathered quite an assortment of fabrics because I wanted to make this quilt from the point of view of a woman who is using up what she has - no preplanning of hues or textures, and using fabrics from all eras except the very modern. I have collected quite a few reproduction fabrics, so my choices spanned anything from what was manufactured last week to repros of 1825. I am doing this purposely. While I was cutting away it occured to me that most people, children especially, have absolutely no idea of the brilliance and variety of colors and prints people in other eras and centuries in this country used in their clothing. Might it make it interesting for children, particularly in elementary grades, as they study U. S. history, to have some samples to look at? They could be titled...."When I got dressed in 1920 my clothes might have looked like....." (Can you tell I'm an ex teacher?) I have some teacher friends and I was thinking it might be nice to put together a display, but then I bogged down. Being the selfish quilter that I am I wouldn't want to use/give away more than a 2" square of each fabric. What would be the best way to mount them so that they would last the longest? Use a glue stick to paste them in a fancy notebook? Any ideas appreciated. Nancy Schott

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:47:17 -0400 From: "J. G. Row" To: "Quilt History List" , Subject: QHL: fabric samples Message-ID: <003201bdb523$6ce3e780$3ce8c6cf@judy-grow> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nancy, I put all the samples I cut from Margaret Adair's 1941 stash in a single photo album for 4 x 6 prints that had 208 openings. I actually had 212 pieces, but doubled some of them up. You could use an album for smaller prints, or single pages, or even slide sheets for binders. Those would really be small samples, but would give an idea of color and pattern. And all the above would keep them away from grimy little hands! Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrow@blast.net >While I was cutting away it occured to me that most people, children >especially, have absolutely no idea of the brilliance and variety of >colors and prints people in other eras and centuries in this country >used in their clothing. Might it make it interesting for children, >particularly in elementary grades, as they study U. S. history, to have >some samples to look at? They could be titled...."When I got dressed in >1920 my clothes might have looked like....." (Can you tell I'm an ex >teacher?) I have some teacher friends and I was thinking it might be >nice to put together a display, but then I bogged down. Being the >selfish quilter that I am I wouldn't want to use/give away more than a >2" square of each fabric. What would be the best way to mount them so >that they would last the longest? Use a glue stick to paste them in a >fancy notebook? Any ideas appreciated. >Nancy Schott ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:00:07 -0400 From: "J. G. Row" To: "Quilt History List" Subject: QHL: Cranston Village Message-ID: <003b01bdb525$37c02a80$3ce8c6cf@judy-grow> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am on Cranston's monthly e-mail newsletter and was intrigued by an offering in their latest. Go to http://www.cranstonvillage.com/herald and follow the directions to the Quilt Shop. Then go to the section on Cotton Fabric of the 1960's. They have a couple illustrated, but most interesting is what happened to all their swatch books from as early as 1820! A fire marshall came into the plant at the turn of the last century and when he saw the room that had the books, he declared it a fire hazard and instructed them to get rid of them -- and they did! The earliest they have left is from 1899. Remember all those wonderful books we saw in Lowell at the Museum of American Textile History? Imagine them all gone too! I've always hated fire marshalls. I've always seen them as little men in big uniforms. I have to deal with them once a year in the store, and everything has to pass their approval before you can open a store. And they are constantly changing the rules. When I opened my second store, in Short Hills NJ (which I sold almost 3 years ago, after 11 years) the fire marshall came in, smoking a cigarette, which he ground out on my carpeted floor, after telling me I had to redo this and that and the other thing to comply to code. And there is absolutely nothing you can do but comply! And burn inside! And so it was at Cranston almost 100 years ago. So much history lost because of one little man! AARRRGH! Judy in Ringoes, NJ ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:41:35 -0700 From: Jon & Chrystine Martin I was amazed to see some of the red work that has been on display at the Mission Houses Museum in Oahu Hawaii...I had no idea there was such diversity in the technique..nor that the patterns made it via the missionaries to the islands... One typically only hears about the wondrous applique...but these were inspiring... -- Chrystine Martin.... The Crafty RN ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:44:53 -0700 From: Jon & Chrystine Martin While moving furniture in the Bedroom with DH...we ran across a ..don't strangle me folks..plastic blanket bag stuffed with what I thought was white muslin.. After opening it...discovered a King Sized lone star quilt done in what was once primary colours..Opened this puppy up...and found a note from my mom..seems she left this for me several years ago...and it just got "shoved" under the bed frame.. Here is where I need some help.. The quilting is and was so sparse..and apparently the batting was/is cotton..that when it was washed..some time ago by my mom ..that there are little and very big.balls of batting all over the place. only two areas where the diamonds need re=stitching. According to the letter left by my mom..the quilt belonged to my granny..and was "stitched by some church ladies in Texas before your grandmother got married." This dating would make it early 1900's..but I sincerely doubt that as the pieceing is all very tightly done by machine and I seem to remember my granny talking about "an ugly lone star " given to her by one of her family members on a trip.. Ok..now for the question part... Do I have this taken apart..and re-quilted so I can use it...there is very large stitching done with no real pattern work..the diamonds are all stitched in a line...no definition around each..just paralled lines crossing all over the place. As for looks...in one of the seams I an see that the fabric has faded substantially..this may at one time have been very bright and "unsightly" as I recall granny saying..but I love it..nice and bright pastelly looking.. Ther is only a front turn over to the back binding... so not too hard to take apart... Any ideas??

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:11:19 EDT From: Carlyz76@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com, fschott@ix.netcom.com Subject: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V98 #207 Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/21/98 10:04:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Nancy Schott writes << I have some teacher friends and I was thinking it might be nice to put together a display, but then I bogged down. Being the selfish quilter that I am I wouldn't want to use/give away more than a 2" square of each fabric. What would be the best way to mount them so that they would last the longest? Use a glue stick to paste them in a fancy notebook? Any ideas appreciated.>> How about line drawings of the people wearing the fabrics as the clothing. This would have to be on tag board or some other type of heavy paper. Examples - years past when little boys wore dresses until they were old enough to wear pants, a girl in a dress. A young woman in a wedding gown and the groom in his only dress clothes (which sometimes were not all that fancy depending on the status of the family). A Farmer in his work clothes, mom in her day dress, don't forget the bank officer or military men. Even the fact that our nurses wore hats and whites until a few years ago. Then there is the nuns habit, too. Nancy you really got me thinking about this and it would be an excellent resource for a teacher. Carla Jolman, Muskegon, Michigan ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:37:41 -0500 From: Laura Hobby Syler   cii" This gave me chills!!! Short and sweet.... NEVER should you offer to purchase anything that you appraise! At least not within a reasonable time period...say at least a year!!! Anyone else want to comment! Laura At 11:59 AM 7/22/98 -0500, Liz Swartz wrote: >I just read a really disturbing story in the paper >yesterday. One of General Picketts's (of Gettysburg fame) >descendents had an entire group of really important family >memorabilia appraised by one of the Civil War experts who is >a regular on Antiques Roadshow. The appraiser valued the >lot at $88,000, bought it from the descendent, then turned >around and sold it to a museum for $800,000! Isn't that an >incredible conflict of interest? Well, needless to say the >descendent is sueing the appraiser. Any thoughts from all >you appraisers out there? What are the rules, writen or >unwriten? > > > > ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:34:34 EDT From: QuiltEvals@aol.com It is not uncommon for an unethical appraiser or dealer to under-evaluate an article, purchase it and resell it for a profit. The consumer needs to be aware of what to look for when seeking a qualified appraiser. Bottom line....if someone who appraises your article makes an offer afterwards purchase it....pick up the article(s) and look for a new appraiser. By the way...There is a web page for Quilt appraiser's FAQ, that discusses things one should know to find a reputable appraiser, and also links to another page that describes the code of ethics that AQS certified appraisers must sign and agree to before certification testing can begin. These pages can be found at:http://quilt.com/debbieroberts/appraiserfaq.html andhttp://quilt.com/debbieroberts/ethics.html ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:37:57 -0600 From: Sharon Harleman Tandy Subject: QHL: appraisers' ethics Hi all, been gone awhile again. My addition is what I've heard from others: Never appraise what you want to buy and never buy what you have appraised. And, even though I am not certified, maybe BECAUSE I am not certified, this is a rule I follow completely and always will, since I want to protect my reputation and those of fellow quilt historians and quilt appraisers. Sharon. ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:11:06 -0500 From: Swede This is a really interesting story. One I printed out and shared with my computer phobic dh who does appraisals for individuals and museums, libraries, etc. on movie memorabilia, vintage film equipment, and authenticates and appraises historic autographs. We are, by the way, also dealers. No one in this field could make a living simply from appraising these things and even a collegue who formerly appraised for Christie's had to deal to stay alive. I would be interested in finding out more of the details of this situation. Anyone know where I can get more info? For instance, how much time elapsed between the time the items were appraised, bought and sold? Was it just the seller's items that were sold to the museum or was it combined with some things the appraiser already had on hand that were related? How did the information get out as to how much the museum paid for this collection? Have any other appraisers been consulted as to what the value should have been set at? Did the seller first try to sell the collection him/herself with no luck and then turn to the dealer/appraiser? How much did the dealer/appraiser pay for the items? Did the appraiser actually give a written appraisal or did the seller ask him "what's it worth?" We always tell people who approach us in this manner, "What it's worth and what we or any other dealer will pay for it are two different things." We charge for appraisals and then give the customers a high/low, wholesale/retail and sometimes regional influence on the opinion. It's easy to jump to conclusions as the public is generally suspicious of dealers in the antique field. And indeed, there is a lot of riffraff out there. But oftentimes, when the facts are known, it turns out to be a partially ficticious story propagated by the public who gobbles up "rip off" stories. I love people who complain about the amount of profit dealers make. Yes, sometimes it is 1000%. But they never take into account how much time goes into finding, restoring, and advertising the goods in order to bring a good selection to the collectors. Everyone wants something for nothing. That 1000% quickly shrinks when you have 2,000 items on inventory that took just as much time to find and restore, but no one's buying them! If the facts are as simple as stated in the original post re: this situation, and the appraiser knowingly misled the seller in order to buy the collection cheap and had the museum waiting in the wings to buy it, then I would think this is appalling and this is the sort of person who gives all people in the antique business a bad name and he should be dealt with harshly. But first, let's have the facts, m'am. Just the facts... Annastina ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:57:28 From: PATRICIA KELLER Hi, Folks - Although it is readily available, nail polish is not an appropriate base coat/ top coat for marking artifacts with identification numbers, etc. Neither is White Out, another perennial favorite... This is a topic that has received much attention among museum conservators, registrars and curators, particularly of late. If you intend to "write" information on an artifact, consider using an acrylic base coat (I like B-72 acryloid, white pigmented for dark objects, colorless for light objects, a PERMANENT marker or India ink for the lettering/ numbering (Sharpies fade out in light- better markers are available, like the Sakura Identi-Pen), and colorless topcoat (colorless B-72 acryloid, or Soluvar)to protect the information you have written on the basecoat from chipping etc. A mail-order archival supply company: Light Impressions, sells the B-72 acryloid already mixed and packaged in small nail-polish type bottles with little brushes built in. The IdentiPens are available through Gaylord, another mail-order archival supply house. Light Impressions: 1-800-828-5539 Gaylord: 1-800-828-6216 Just one system among several that museum folks use. Patricia Keller ____________________________________________________________________ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:04:16 EDT From: @aol.com Just one comment about fire marshals: the regulations may seem petty, and the guy who smoked a cigarette and stubbed it out on the rug should have been reported to the town (especially in a place like Short Hills!), but fabric *is* a fire hazard. Especially dusty fabric - large quantities of dust can spontaneously combust, like in the grain elevator out in the Midwest recently. We don't know the condition of those early fabric books, we don't know where they were kept or stored, and we have no idea if they were capturing enough dust to be a fire hazard. I agree that it's a shame that Cranston got rid of the early sample books...but their choice to *discard* the books is hardly the fault of the fire marshal! He simply said to "get rid of them." Cranston could have donated them to a museum, sold them to employees, or cleaned them and kept them in a proper archive. There were plenty of options besides destroying them. Finally, it is entirely possible that some of the books might have survived. When I worked at Steelcase, the furniture company, no one cared if I took fabric or laminate samples, and in fact I was allowed to "liberate" an entire sample case of mahogany laminates when the product line was phased out! It would not shock me to learn that some of the employees decided to liberate sample books if they liked the fabrics. After all, if no one *wants* the samples, why not take them? Karen Evans ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:31:04 -0500 From: "Jeff & Sheri Lesh" Also I just bought 11 Sawtooth Star blocks (from Brackman book, #2138) from a local antique shop. The fabrics are turn of the century or a little before, some homespun, mourning cloth, double pink, one chrome yellow, and one paisley block. The sizes were all over the place so I trimmed them to a more uniform size. I framed each block with a black repro sashing, then did the final trimming so they were exactly the same size. Then cut alternating blocks out of a double pink fabric and set them every other one with the double pink fabric. Setting them 2-1-2-1-2-1-2. It made a long, narrow piece, but I did not want to add anymore blocks to the set, so that limited my lay out. I got the top all sewed and really was not that thrilled with the way it looked, then I remembered the soldier quilts in the Civil War book, so I looked at them and they had some borders around them, so went digging in the abyss of the stash and came up with the Jenny Beyer Discovery Border, remember that from a few years ago. Well I still have a bunch of that, so put that around the edge. It really helped tie it together, with the pink, blue and black. I also tried that trick of using the binoculars backwards to look at it. The quilt really does look better from a distance than right close. But those lonely little blocks now have a new home and just imagine with me some civil war soldier sleeping under this quilt made by his loving mother for her dear boy! That's my story and I am sticking to it! Sheri from Iowa Jeff & Sheri Lesh jefflesh@netins.net ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:11:03 EDT From: EGinebaugh@aol.com Hi All, A friend of mine has a quilt top with fabrics that I have never seen before. I thought someone out here may have some ideas or thoughts on it. The quilt top is just a brick pattern, in white, pink & blue solids, but the fabric is semi-sheer. It's different feeling than any cotton or man-made fabric that I have seen. I'ts also a little stiff or *crispy* feeling, but not to the point of breakage, yet. The top is estimated at being made in the latter 1800's. Family top, handed down through the ages. I told my friend who owns the top not to quilt it till someone looks at it first to determine if it will be shredded with the quilting process. Our question is: what type of fabric could this be? TIA, Liz in sunny Michigan P.S. Thanks, Maury ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:43:11 -0400 From: Nancy Roberts To: QHL@cuenet.com Redwork quilts were popular from the late 19th century-Victorian era until the 1940s. Various motifs are related to different time periods and the patterns for redwork blocks were popular series in newspapers of the '20s-'40s. An article with more in-depth background information about redwork quilts appeared in Traditional Quiltworks magazine, Issue 32 (summer, 1994). It features quilts from the collection of Sandra Munsey along with a block pattern for Sunbonnet Babies from Sally Goodspeed. Perhaps you or a quilting friend have this back issue. If not, one can be ordered from Chitra Publications by calling 800-628-8244. Also, a reader wrote in to Traditional Quiltworks with a question about salvaging vintage redwork blocks. Replies from Alan (quiltfix@bellsouth.net-of this list) and me will appear in Issue 58, coming in the fall. Nancy   ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:28:27 EDT From: QuiltFixer@aol.com Since I have had so many inquires about the Restoration Cleaner I used, with her permission, I am providing this information: Doris Easley 916 782-3028 Fabricare Consultant/Heirloom Restoration Cleaning, Conservation, Restoration of all types of fabric and textiles Doris has her office in her home and consultations are by appointment or telephone. She get many things from individuals, museum, etc., by mail, ups, etc., but you must consult with her first. She travels a lot lecturing so may not be available immediately to answer your call. I found her to be very reliable and capable. She has many, many references. Toni Baumgard QuiltFixer@aol.com -- Sue Bender ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:57:28 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Just returned from Vermont Quilt Festival, and on my way, unexpectedly (!) to Quilting by the Lake, but I wanted to throw out a question: I love Princess Feather quilts - one of those quilts I'm likely never to make myself! They had one on display at VQF, an antique beauty. I was admiring it at some length when I realized that the more or less standard swag border was "upside down" - that is, the convex side of the swag pointed to the center of the quilt. I thought - how odd! Then I chuckled to myself thinking about the quilt maker, who, discovering that she'd sewn on the first side of border backwards, said "what the heck" and sewed the other four sides on to match! OK - next day, I'm seated at our raffle quilt table, across the way from a PA antique quilt dealer. They had not one, but TWO princess feathers on display. The first was taken down and perhaps sold. I wander over to look at what I find to be the second feather quilt and realize it too has swag borders - simple parenthesis shape things - ALSO sewn on convex side pointing in. This border was not fabric swag like, but geometric and with small dots along with it. The dealer wasn't helpful, wanting to talk about the NY State governor instead of quilts, so I wandered off to consider all of this. To sooth my brain I ended up buying 5 1/2 yards of silk from the next vendor, Delectable Mountain Cloth from Brattleboro VT. So - how often do swags get turned around? Mary Beth

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:21:58 -1000 From: Laurie Woodard To: "QHL Digest" Subject: QHL: Hawaiian redwork Message-Id: <98jul23.172118hwt.148929(5)@relay1.hawaii.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I was amazed to see some of the red work that has been on display at the >Mission Houses Museum in Oahu Hawaii...I had no idea there was such >diversity in the technique.. these were inspiring... >Chrystine Martin.... The Crafty RN Dear Chrystine (and everyone) I am glad to hear that you found the Hawaiian redwork as exciting as I do! These quilts were made in the same time frame, roughly 1880-1925, when cotton embroidery was popular in the mainland U.S. For those that have never seen it, Hawaiian quilters generally worked with only one or two motifs--the same floral designs sold by Briggs Transfer Co. and the Ladies Art Co. and others that were purchased by mainland quilters for their penny squares. They laid them out on a whole-cloth surface to create an overall design rather like their applique quilt designs. They also developed designs using local flowers like the Ohia lehua (metrosideros collina) and the Night blooming Cereus (a Mexican catus). Also, they might combine the Hawaiian coat of arms you are familiar with from Hawaiian flag quilts, with the floral designs. Victorian bows, ostrich feathers, butterflies, and birds also can be found. They embroidered in all weights of red cotton embroidery thread. Occassionally blue thread was used. When other shades of colorfast cotton embroidery thread appeared in the mid-twenties, other pastel colors were used. They quilted in a variety of straight-line quilting patterns, in the contour or echo quilting you expect to see on Hawaiian applique quilts, and in a few quilting patterns that seem to be unique to Hawaiian quilts (associated with the island of Kauai). You can see a representative sample of these quilts in "Uncoverings 1997," the journal publication of the American Quilt Study Group (http://catsis.weber.edu/aqsg/). One quilt from the Mission Houses Exhibit, Honolulu, HI is featured (small image) on the "Hawaiian Quilts" web page of the Hawaiian Quilt Research Project(http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/openstudio/hqrp/). Mahalo Laurie ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:36:38 -0800 From: ayjones@tacoma.nwrain.net (Yvonne Jones) Mary Beth said: I love Princess Feather quilts - one of those quilts I'm likely never to make myself! They had one on display at VQF, an antique beauty. I was admiring it at some length when I realized that the more or less standard swag border was "upside down" - that is, the convex side of the swag pointed to the center of the quilt. Mary Beth, I have a wonderful Princess Feather with tulips, a red and green applique quilt. I never considered the border to be a swag border, just an original design. It could be similar to what you are talking about, it is like scalloped "U's" all around the border and the ends of the U come out to the edge.As a quilter that does mostly applique I look at this quilt with great admiration to the quilter because it is the most difficult level of applique when you have so many "ins and outs" on not just the Princess Feathers but the border pieces as well. I hope this helps you in your comparisons. Yvonne QUILT-R Washington State ayjones@tacoma.nwrain.net The QUILT-R :) ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:46:14 +0000 From: Lou Ann Schlichter Emily I noticed a response to your Redwork question and after just finishing a reproduction of same, a friend passed on an article to me. Quilter's Newsletter, Sept.1997, pg.43 "Penny Squares & Other Redwork" It's a good article that will give you a brief history. I'm now doing Sunbonnet Babies, embroidered, and 30-40's reproduction fabrics to display in my shop. I see you are from Huntington Beach...come to Ojai and see them in person! Lou Ann Schlichter, Proprietress Heartwarmers Mercantile http://www.west.net/~hartwrmr ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 04:40:48 -0400 Just a comment about appraisers and dealers, neither of which I am. I think the person who said an appraiser couldn't pay the rent by appraising alone, and so becomes a dealer. That is another way to make a living from that specialized knowledge. Now how to make the two ETHICALLY compatible? I would suggest that if someone appraises for you, that person is immediately disqualified as a buyer. At least for an amount of time which allows you to get "a second opinion" from a source distant from the first. Then you can return to the first appraiser with the second appraiser's value as your asking price! Problem is, when someone wants to liquidate a collection, quilts or stamps or whatever, they usually go to the local (or remote) DEALER and ask for an offer. So there's a built in self interested appraisal going on. If your objective is to sell, once again, the only protection is several offers, just like bids on a remodelling job. Repeated "measurements" are the substitute for one's own becoming an expert in the field. SusanLK ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:23:39 EDT From: BPack55294@aol.com << brick pattern, in white, pink & blue solids, but the fabric is semi-sheer. It's different feeling than any cotton or man-made fabric that I have seen. I'ts also a little stiff or *crispy* feeling, but not to the point of breakage, yet. The top is estimated at being made in the latter 1800's. . . .Our question is: what type of fabric could this be? .. It could be cotton with a "finish" (like polished cotton), it could be silk, OR it could even be a very early form of rayon. Could some threads be pulled from a seam allowance for a burn test? that is the direction I would purse at this point. Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:51:43 EDT From: BPack55294@aol.com I would suggest this person see what Kent State University (in northeastern Ohio) has, either in terms of written documentation with their splendid clothing and fashion programs, or even at their museum, which is no small resource! On feedsacks, if KSU doesn't have anything (which would surprise me, though sometimes the total lack of evidence can actually indicate that the product never existed, in this case, it is entirely possible that feedsacks were never mfg'd in Ohio!), anyway, she might try working through the resources at The Ohio State University in Columbus, which has a superior agricultural school as well as programs in clothing, fashion, textiles (including "home" textiles in addition to those mfg'd with the original intent of being used for wearables). It is entirely possible that the documentation for the feed sacks may have to be one of those areas where you have to do the research "through the back door," e.g. find the feed companies and distributors in Ohio, and then try to find out where they got their sacks! Hope this helps! bets P.S. Remind your friend of the sage advice of an acquaintance of mine, Civil War re-enactor and historian: An unfootnoted secondary source is less than likely to be relied upon as fact! Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:55:11 0500 From: Swede > neither of which I am. I think > the person who said an appraiser couldn't pay the rent by appraising alone, > and so becomes a dealer. an amount of time which allows you to > get "a second opinion" from a source distant from the first. Then you can > return to the first appraiser with the second appraiser's value as your > asking price! All the folks I know who appraise were dealers first and then move into appraising as they are able to draw on years of experience. At least you'd better hope that's the case. IMHO consulting an appraiser with no practical experience in the marketplace is about as effective as checking a price guide. An appraiser with no experience is (at least in the collectible field) like consulting a medical student vs. a bona fide doctor. Getting second opinions is a good idea if what you have is worth A LOT. Definately not worth it on a low ticket item. This is because in order to get a really rock-steady opinion, you're probably going to have to pay for it. Please don't call around and ask dealers if they "have X item for sale", trying to get a bead on what your stuff is worth. First, you're wasting the merchant's time in your quest for free information. Secondly, a smart dealer knows what kind of questions a collector vs. a "brain picker" will ask and you will probably get either the brush off or faulty information. Also, if you're paying for the opinion, the appraiser/dealer has much more of an obligation to provide you with accurate, thorough information. Ask for it in writing. Most people don't want to sign their name to an appraisal in their profession if they're not sure for fear of looking ridiculous if they're "off". > the only protection is several offers. Aren't you operating under false pretenses to ask a professional to put thought and reseearch into what they should offer you for your item when you have no intention of selling to them? You're wasting their time for your own personal gain. How is that ethical? The business person has other things to do---like make a living to feed her family Next, understand that when you ask a dealer for an offer THIS IS NOT an appraisal. An appraisal is when you bring in an item, and she either is absolutely certain what the value is because she sells tons of these items or it's something that she will research (this involves phone calls to others in a network of specialist dealers around the country with whom she has a reciprocal arrangement to assess the national demand; consulting a variety of data amassed in the area; searching back issues of journals to see what other similar items sold for; searching her own data base of sales to see what the items sold for. And in some cases, such as an autograph or art, researching samples of the signer's handwriting and verifying that it is authentic. When you ask for an offer, this is a subjective thing...the offer you receive MAY be reliant on how much money is in the dealer's bank account, how sales were last week, how many of the same items are in the back room, or what kind of mood she's is in that day not it's "worth". A dealer who is approached to buy is not ethically bound to tell you what your item is worth on a retail level and then make you an offer close to that. When a consumer goes to a garage sale and sees a gleaming Featherweight with a "make offer" sign, and the seller says she'll accept $50, does the buyer say, "Oh, no, no, it's worth MUCH more than that!. Here..let me pay you $400 for it." I doubt it. And even if that happened once, if you did this all the time, you would fast run out of work capital. Choosing an appraiser is like choosing a doctor or lawyer or babysitter. Does that person have experience? Do you get a positive impression when you speak with her? How long has she been in business? Does she sell locally or nationally? Certification can at least provide a minimum set of standards, tho is not available in many fields and doesn't mean a thing in some. The problem with certification is while it is a badge of at least meeting some kind of standard, you have no idea as to whether the person certified passed by the skin of their teeth or with flying colors. Certification does not guarantee a whole lot [tho it makes people feel good about dealing with you sometimes]. When you choose a doctor, he is certified by the state - but do you have a clue as to whether he graduated at the top or bottom of his class? Did he fail the exam twice before passing? Does he have 3 malpractice suits pending? It is important to remember that the doctor who almost flunked out of a 3rd rate med school, failed the state exam twice and is being pelted with malpractice suits receives the same certification as a Jonas Salk. Ask around, check the dealer's reputation. KNOW the difference between asking for an offer and paying for an appraisal. If you feel uncomfortable with a bona-fide appraiser who then offers to buy [but you really want to sell], do a little homework. Comb the libraries, travel to other cities to visit other stores and learn something about what you're selling. I think the maxim "buyer beware" should be modified to "buyer AND seller beware". If it's important to you to get top dollar out of your item, you're going to have to do a little homework. Unfortunately, life is not fair and it pays to try to find out a little about what you're trying to do, whether it's replacing the roof or selling a collection. Sorry to have run on here. I just felt compelled to explain some of these issues from a merchant's perspective. Annastina

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:14:15 -0400 From: The Garretts The sightings and reports continue. Thank you to all who have sent me information. 1. I just spoke to a man who made one in about 1953. He doesn't remember any details except it was done in public school in Morgantown, PA, in 6th or 7th grade shop. He doesn't remember if everyone made one, or it was an extra project. I got the feeling he hadn't thought about it in a long time. The story of how I found out about him is more interesting. I do volunteer work at a shop in Morgantown and one day was talking to another woman there about the sewing chickens. She said -- "my sister got my mother's sewing chicken." My friend is about 54, and said this in the same way one would say "my older sister got my mother's good silver." This intrigued me, as she seemed bothered that she hadn't gotten it. She later told me her cousin had made the rooster for her sister to give their mother as a gift, thus the reason the sister inherited the rooster. Sister and cousin are about 57 years of age. But there the story ends for now. This same friend told me her pastor made one for his mother as a child, but the pastor is in Africa visiting his grandchildren, so I can't talk to him until the fall. 2. Alice in Los Angeles has 3 -- all different patterns -- 2 are varnished, 1 is painted flat lime green. Two have pincushion wings, 1 does not. She got them at yard sales about 6 years ago in an area settled by families from the midwest in the period 1900 to 1930s. A local woman who sells sewing stuff usually has them -- cost $50. 3. Liz in Michigan saw one on a trip to Toronto, Ontario, recently. It was painted thickly, with the last coat being yellow, scissors for the beak, handles the comb, pincushion on back, 4 spool holders, 1 thimble holder, 1 drawer. Cost $32 Cdn. 4. Sue in NW Ohio tells of her son making a plywood rocking chair with spool dowel arms and fabric covered back and seat in IA in Junior High in the early 80s. No animals, though. 5. Nancy in Arlington, VA, has seen them in antique malls in VA, PA, MD, and N Car. Usually $30 to $50. She has one "chick" from a yard sale -- octagonal base 4 1/2" across, chicken 5" tall, light brown stain, wings feet and eyes are painted dark brown. 6. Jean's father made her a rooster in 1934 while living in Bellefonte, PA. She remembers it sitting on the dresser beside her bed. 7. Mary saw one at the Historical Museum in Ft. Wayne, Ind. It had plaid cloth wings and a drawer in the base. 8. Beth has 2 ducks and 1 chicken. The chicken has a scalloped bottom 4" x 7", with a red cockscomb and cloth eyes with nails through the cloth. It was purchased in Rochester, NY. The ducks where purchased in Bloomington, Ind. One is on a square base about 5", the other a rectangular base. 9. Peggy in Chambersburg, PA, and I found the same book on the same day -- different antique shops. It is titled "Craft Patterns Home Ideas Book", c 1955. It is a catalog of patterns available through the newspaper -- the patterns can be ordered for either 15 cents or 20 cents depending on whose catalog you are using. Illustrated are 3 sewing ducks, 1 spool dog and 1 spool cat. No pattern for a sewing chicken. The company was from Elmhurst, Ill. The one duck is exactly like the sewing peep I had in Lowell -- the one with a small drawer -- so now I know it is a duck. Thanks for all the information. I still hope to find that pattern someday, so will keep looking. I delayed posting this in the hopes my friend's cousin would have more information, but he was 12 when he made the rooster, so I'm not surprised he doesn't remember. Barb in southeastern PA

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:42:32 +1000 From: nomad1 To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: RE:Sampler and Double Pink Quilt--Long post Message-ID: <35b9b698.57a@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Nancy ( Kaufman) and QHL'ers, I am still catching up with my past QHL's. and Nancy I just loved that sweet poem you wrote about, i.e " The Sampler Speaks " and it really spoke to me as when I recently visited your beautiful country I stayed awhile with my Auntie. I had a wonderful time sharing my love of antique quilts and have hopefully passed on that love to her. Imagine my delight when she disappeared into her room and reappeared carrying a parcel covered in tissue. Inside was this beautiful Sampler that my grandmother had worked on as a little girl. My Gran had passed it onto my Auntie Yvonne at age 16 when her needlework skills showed great promise. This treasure is even more precious to me, as my Grandmother was this formidable matriarch who dabbled in property, shares etc and I could never imagine her as a little girl who practised her sewing! The work is just beautiful, the English alphabet stitched in various scripts, some with flowers entwined, numerals as well etc. It is interesting that she did not do the same of the Sinhalese alphabet! I practically did a little jig of sheer delight as this wealth has now been entrusted into my care! :> I plan to frame it and put acid free mountings etc and write the details on it to preserve it for future generations. The other treasure I found in the States, besides wonderful people, wonderful bison, antelope, prairie dogs, glorious scenery etc was this wonderful cheater cloth whole quilt. To me, it reads late 1800's as the background is this wonderful double pink with blocks set on point, alternating pink and white. Feather stitching that is printed in black separates the blocks. Within some white blocks, baskets with black and white segments are set on point with a thin black handle. A flower sits on top with black leaves that have patterns of green leaves within them. The green is that chrome green. Some white blocks have a rose of Sharon with little buds and the same leaves. The double pink alternating block that has a small pink and white dot print has a black wheel with small pink flowers and the same leaves in minature surrounding a pink solid centre. The quilting is done in a wave pattern by a treadle machine, with the stitches quite large. This probably all sounds ghastly, but it is actually a lovely quilt and everyone who sees it, just adore it. Has anyone seen something like this? Would love to get some feedback. Alan you are nuts over double pink right, have you any ideas about this? Sorry for nattering on so long, just had to share. Hiranya from Parramatta, Sydney, Australia :> where we are freezing! ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:09:00 EDT From: ZegrtQuilt@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V98 #210 Message-ID: <3e8ebae7.35b9cade@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It is refreshing and informative to read Annastina's well written response to some issues re appraising. I agree with her. Again let me refer you to my website www.shellyquilts.com for the article I wrote on appraising,for what I intended to be an unbiased look at what is available to you and the questions you should ask when looking at the various organizations known to the quilt world. In the article I did not touch on Annastina's points as ,as normally happens, I was limited to a particular number of words .In the antiques and fine art world, some of the most respected names in the business, and I mean business, are the very people to whom you go for either an appraisal ,the sale of an object, and the purchase of an object of the highest quality.ex; Israel Sack, America Hurrah, Leigh Keno to name but a few. They know the difference and carefully advise you of a potential conflict. ,should there be one.They and others are professionals of the highest level with many years of experience and education in their fields. You all should study the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice appraisal standards book which is" authorized by Congress as the source of appraisal standards and appraiser qualifications" which is followed by the member organizations of the not for profit Appraisal Foundation .,For information call or fax 202-347-7727. Most of you ,based on what I have been reading here ,will be amazed to find that membes of these organizations use this manual as their bible.where the rules,ethics and regulations are clearly spelled out. There are always folks out there who are less than honorable. It is, after all, your responsibilty to search for the right person for the right reason to answer your questions and provide you with the services you need. Shelly Zegart ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:32:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Pamela Robersson Hello, I am fairly new to this list, but read eagerly each day as the digest comes in. I feel there is such a body of knowledge here, and enjoy the various threads. I am interested in this appraisal thread. As a corporate collection owner, private collector, and buyer for other corporate collections, I find it very interesting. I have all of my corporate and personal quilts appraised, and encourage my clients to do likewise. In doing so, I have found that most insurance agents will rely on the opinion of a certified and knowledgable appraiser. The difference being that paying for and taking appraisal classes does not necessarily make one more knowledgable. Anyone with the money can take the classes. Certification in a field indicates some standard of reliability, as well as adherence to ethical standards. Since this thread was generated because of a seemingly unethical appraiser - ethics does become a concern here as it should in all of our dealings, whether it be selecting an appraiser or a real estate agent. Integrity is important, yet, I have found that many well known dealer/appraisers, even some who are well versed on quilts, have not signed or agreed to any sort of a code of ethics...yes, I have asked. So, why not? My thoughts exactly. If someone refuses to agree to a code of ethics, then I don't think I would want them appraising my quilts. For the most part I agree with Anastina's summation of the dealer/appraiser situation. But in all situations, it is your responsibility as the consumer to know your product.....except in this case your appraiser. Because I only buy, and don't sell, this opinion only comes from that vantage point. However, there are pleanty of appraisers with proven quilt related expertise who are not also dealers.....so to me there is no delima. If I were to want to sell a quilt, I feel that is the route I would go. Why take the risk with a dealer? I would certainly never sell to a dealer who had just given me a fair market value on my quilt, without seeking a 2nd opinion, and my feeling is, why pay for something twice. Again, going back to consumer be informed. Earlier a web page was mentioned regarding appraisals. I looked at it and the information was very well written and concise. I also did a browser check and found some other sources for appraiser information. I also must say, that appraisals are important, not only from the point of getting a market value, but for insurance reasons as well. I learned the hard way several years ago. It is well worth the investment to have an appraisal on your property. My humble opinion. You all have a lovely weekend. Pamela

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:43:57 EDT From: BrickWks1@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Annastina has made many good points about her post about appraisers -- I do want to point out, though, that a good appraiser does not have to have dealer experience to be good at what she/he does. Some of the best I know started out as historians, restorers and collectors. Although I personally have sold a few pieces, I am by no means a dealer. Yet I think I'm no slouch as an appraiser, and my background (a lot of writing and research, as well as teaching and restoring) had a lot to do with it. (She says modestly, shuffling her feet) Cindy P.S. Has anyone ever seen a Civil War commemorative or Centennial commemorative fabric Crazy quilt? One sold recently on EBay, and I had never heard of one before that. ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:31:40 -0400 (EDT) From: JOCELYNM@delphi.com On 25-JUL-1998 14:34:37.5 quiltcollector said to JOCELYNM > Integrity is important, yet, I have found that many well known > dealer/appraisers, even some who are well versed on quilts, have not > signed or agreed to any sort of a code of ethics...yes, I have asked. > So, why not? My thoughts exactly. If someone refuses to agree to a > code of ethics, then I don't think I would want them appraising my > quilts. Pamela, I think that would depend very much, on 'why'. A 'code of ethics' is the opinion of (usually) a small group of members of a profession, about what the ethics of the profession should be. A person might refuse to agree to it because they believed that it permitted actions that ought to be banned, or because it omitted any mention of actions that ought to have been discussed. For example, in my own profession, I am required to subscribe to our code of ethics. OTOH, I've had the opportunity to read the CoE of allied professions...some of which state that things that I would personally call unethical, are permitted. If I had a choice in the matter, I would refuse to sign such a CoE, in protest of what I thought were lower standards than my own. A dealer/appraiser might refuse for a similar reason, or for many others. For example, if 'signing' means just signing a piece of paper, that might seem to her to be a silly, pointless exercise. OTOH, if it meant that she had to send money to a national registry, it might strike her as being a rip-off. She might be refusing to sign, because she saw it as a method of enriching its authors, not of protecting the public, especially if there is no enforcement capacity. Jocelyn ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:32:11 -0400 (EDT) From: JOCELYNM@delphi.com To: BrickWks1@aol.com, QHL@cuenet.com > P.S. Has anyone ever seen a Civil War commemorative or Centennial > commemorative fabric Crazy quilt? One sold recently on EBay, and I >had never heard of one before that. Cindy, I quit going to the eBay after I had a dealer tell me all about how many stitches per inch were on his quilt, and then posted a close-up of the quilt in response to my questions. I looked at the picture, then asked him point blank: I can't see ANY signs of quilting on this 'quilt'...is it a quilt or a top? Welllllll...it was a top. Machine pieced, too. Now why anyone would brag about 14 stitches/inch in the seams of a machine-pieced top, I have no idea...but I sure felt that the reason was to fool me into believing I was buying a quilt, not just a top. My other theory, that he knew so little about quilts, that when he heard others talking about stitches per inch, he didn't realize they were referring to quilting stitches, not seams, wasn't much more flattering. Jocelyn

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:49:42 -0500 (EST) >P.S. Has anyone ever seen a Civil War commemorative or Centennial commemorative fabric Crazy quilt? One sold recently on EBay, and I had never heard of one before that. Cindy, There is such a quilt in the exhibit "Still Crazy After All Those Quilts" on display at the New England Quilt Museum in Lowell, Massachusetts (978-452-4207) through August 16. The center of the quilt is a silk bandana from the 1893 Chicago World's Fair, which is why I was so interested in the quilt. (I am researching quilts that were exhibited in Chicago in 1893. Please let me know if you know of any.) Anyway, it also contains a ribbon from the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition. The quilt is in the NEQM collection and is labeled as follows: Lowell Crazy Qui1893-1904 Blanche Wiggin Staples (Robinson) 72"x60" crazy gift of Judith Hall, 1989.02 I wanted a photograph, but (alas) they do not allow photography and I didn't have time to talk to them about aquiring one. Joanna Evans Bloomington, IN ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:35:41 -0400 From: "susanlk" To: Subject: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V98 #212 Yes, ebay is certainly a topic these days!! I go there for some humor. Although the experience of Jocelyn who was told stitch density when the object wasn't even quilted is so bad as to not be funny. When you think what kind of money sellers are expecting on the strength of very poor if not downright incorrect descriptions!! One doll auction recently described the doll as in excellent condition, but missing an arm. I find that a ridiculous use of the word "excellent" in describing the doll overall. And of course quilts are CONSTANTLY being described as in wonderful condition, considering their age...and then the seller goes on to say there are only a few holes, of sizes MANY inches large. If it weren't so sad, these amateurs, thieves and incompetents ruining ebay as a place for good quality collectible textiles, it would be funny the descriptions are often so outrageous. I actually did write to one seller who claimed an item was particularly valuable because it's out of production, and the item IS in production. The seller flamed me for trying to be God by telling her what she could or could not say!!! People like that have driven SO many people away from ebay..who wants to get flamed when you correct an erroneous description, which is the ONLY data you have to base your purchase decision on. Ebay management seems to think self policing by buyers will drive out the bad guys. They probably believe in the tooth fairy too. SusanLK ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Pamela Robersson > > I think that would depend very much, on 'why'. > A 'code of ethics' is the opinion of (usually) a small group of members > of a profession, about what the ethics of the profession should be. A > person might refuse to agree to it because they believed that it permitted > actions that ought to be banned, or because it omitted any mention of > actions that ought to have been discussed. > For example, in my own profession, I am required to subscribe to our > code of ethics. OTOH, I've had the opportunity to read the CoE of allied > professions...some of which state that things that I would personally call > unethical, are permitted. If I had a choice in the matter, I would refuse to > sign such a CoE, in protest of what I thought were lower standards than my > own. > A dealer/appraiser might refuse for a similar reason, or for many > others. For example, if 'signing' means just signing a piece of paper, that > might seem to her to be a silly, pointless exercise. OTOH, if it meant that > she had to send money to a national registry, it might strike her as being a > rip-off. She might be refusing to sign, because she saw it as a method of > enriching its authors, not of protecting the public, especially if there is > no enforcement capacity. > > Jocelyn > > What Jocelyn says may be true, however, I do not think that ANY nationally recognized appraisal organization would have any ambiguity in their code of ethics, which should be a priviledge for a competent appraiser to sign, indicating he/she is a member of such an organization. Pamela _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address athttp://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:22:56 -0500 From: Swede JOCELYNM wrote: >She might be refusing to sign, because she saw it as a method of enriching its authors, >not of protecting the public, especially if there is no enforcement capacity. Quite true! Take the BBB for example. A lot of people are under the impression that reporting a business to the BBB is something that will bring swift action for an alleged wrong. WRONG! The BBB has no enforcement powers and if a complaint is received they will contact the merchant and tell her what you said and ask you to resolve it. End of story. If they receive lots of complaints, they'll keep a file and tell you if you ASK. But probably by the time you're asking, it's too late anyway. We all have our personal, internal code of ethics. And you might compare this to being a member of a certain religion, [Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, whatever]. Altho each religion has their own teachings on conduct and morality, we all know that not every [Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, whatever], follows the rules - or individually interprets (rationalizes) their behavior to fit the rules. So I don't think a lot of us judge people we meet by saying, "Oh, she's [Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, whatever], this person has my implicit trust!" It may be a factor in making you feel comfortable with the person, but it is no guarantee or indicator of their trustworthiness. And so it is with an appraiser who has signed something. If signing something could make a person adhere to a code of ethics, most lenders would write one into their lending contract to insure that the borrower would not become delinquent. Instead, they rely on an agreement that states very real legal consequences and fees in the case of delinquency or default The agreement is only as good as the person who signs it. Just my .02¢. Annastina ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:02:42 +0000 From: Jocelyn To: qhl@cuenet.com, Pamela Robersson Subject: Re: QHL: Appraisals Message-id: <649a177115@sw1.socwel.ukans.edu> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > What Jocelyn says may be true, however, I do not think that ANY > nationally recognized appraisal organization would have any ambiguity > in their code of ethics, which should be a priviledge for a competent > appraiser to sign, indicating he/she is a member of such an > organization. Pamela, If the American Psychological Association can have a Code of Ethics that I don't agree with, as a social worker, I think it is HIGHLY likely that even a nationally recognized appraisal organization might have content in their code of ethics that a particular person might find unacceptable. Ethics is nowhere near an exact science, and people aren't all the same. A code of ethics typically is written to specify the absolute minimum standards, and omits what someone with higher standards might consider as absolutely essential. For example, in the realm of dual relationships with clients, some mental health workers would say that a therapist can never, EVER initiate a dual relationship, even after the client ends the therapeutic relationship. Others would say that it's OK if the therapeutic relationship ended, and the second relationship began later. Still others would say that it is acceptable to end a therapeutic relationship for the purpose of beginning a second relationship. So let's say we have three therapists. Mary says, 'I don't think it's right for me to date a former client, ever. As a matter of fact, I try not to socialize with former clients.' John says, 'I worked with my wife for awhile back in 1981. After she quit seeing me for therapy, we lost touch with each other. In 1995, she saw the notice for my divorce in the paper, and gave me a call. We started going out, and now we're married.' Pat says, 'I started to work with Chris, and immediately realized I was sexually attracted, so I made a referral to a colleague. A couple of months later, I ran into Chris at a dance. To my surprise, Chris told me that the attraction was mutual, and now we're going out.' None of these examples violates the rule against 'no dual relationships with clients', because both Pat and John had terminated their professional relationships with their clients before assuming a social/romantic relationship with them. But is there ANY code of ethics that Pat or John could write, that would suit Mary? If she refused to sign off on their code, because it wasn't strict enough in her opinion, that wouldn't be a statement about her lack of ethics. Every code of ethics WILL contain ambiguity. It is absolutely impossible for the authors to detail every possible situation. For example, the above 'dual relationships'. Most people would say, 'Oh, that's clear, you shouldn't have sex with your clients.' But it goes much further than that. If you asked 100 professionals if it would be ethically wrong to hire a student/client to mow their lawn if the kid was trying to get started with a lawn-mowing business, I daresay that you wouldn't get 100% agreement that it would be an ethical violation.Suppose one of my teenaged clients wants to get a lawnmowing business going. I need someone to mow my yard. If I hire Josh, I can serve as a reference for him. Doesn't that seem like a nice thing to do? But is it ethical? Even if Josh and I agree on the amount of money per mowing, there's still potential for problems. Suppose Josh does a sloppy job? Can I legitimately refuse to pay him? Can I refuse to hire him again? Suppose there's a lot of rain, and Josh can't get to the yard for awhile. When he does, it's really tall and requires a lot of work. Is it fair for me to pay him the regular amount, or do I owe him more money? I've been paying LawnsRUs $20 a mowing. Josh says he'll do it for $15. Am I exploiting him? LawnsRUs does a better job, though. Suppose I'm planning a 4th of July party, and I want my lawn mowed. It's 105 degrees out. Am I exploiting Josh to expect him to mow my lawn? Suppose he takes psychiatric medication that makes him more susceptible to sunburn and heat stroke. Am I exploiting him to expect him to mow my lawn on schedule, in a heat wave? If he refuses to mow, am I justified in hiring LawnsRUs so that my party guests aren't knee-deep in grass? Or am I retaliating against Josh, cheating him out of his $15 for that week, punishing him for refusing to mow when he thought the heat and sun could endanger his health? On the other hand, what will Josh think if I refuse to hire him? Will he question whether I really like him, or believe this is a sign that I don't want him to succeed, or I don't think he's capable of succeeding? Is the damage I may do by refusing to hire him, more or less than the damage that may occur if things go badly? The ambiguities are there, because life is ambiguous. To say that there is only one possible reason for a person to refuse to sign a code of ethics, and that is that they are unethical, ignores those ambiguities of life. There are lots of reasons. Jocelyn

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:01:17 -0500 From: Swede Jocelyn makes a valid point. There are many fine doctors who have refused to take the Hippocratic Oath because they believe abortion should be a legal alternative for women or that euthanasia is an acceptable choice. Regardless of what your views on arbortion or euthanasia are, you can not deny that the technical skill and experience of these physicians may be impecable. At the same time, I know at least one physician who has taken the Hippocratic Oath and does perform abortions [legally]. I would trust this doctor with my life (and have). I judge him on his professional EXPERIENCE. (No, not as an abortionist, but as a surgeon). Annastina --

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:20:56 +0930 From: Karen Bush To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Good Message-ID: <35bcf640.41c8@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morning all! Whew! I just finished catching up on my digests, quite a thread going! Welcome to the new people! I don't have anything to say/add/ to the discussion, I just wanted to say 'Hi' before everybody forgot me, it's been so long since I posted! One question,though. I've been hearing "E-bay" quite a bit,too, on different lists/digests...and wondered, is there ANY way, we as a group, or individually can go to the e-bay police and let them know of the inconsistencies in the 'write up' of the quilts that are on there? I had a friend who bought from there, and the quilt was Nothing like described. I know...Buyer Beware, but, like someone else said on this list, they're ruining the reputation of an otherwise good place to go. I can't remember who posted about getting the 'flaming' e-mail after she was caught falsely describing the quilt, and the man who was describing the PIECING stitching (machine) as Hand Quilting....THAT'S Scary! I'm just glad Kris has her page on her site with great quilts, we can at least trust HER knowledge...I'm just worried about the others buying from E-bay..."Buyer Beware, but it seems like it's getting to be a 'given' that the quilts are NOT what they're represented. I'm SURE there are some great quilts on there, it's a shame that there are sellers ruining it for the honest seller,though. "Ethics/Morals" don't seem to have a place in some people's dealings, but at least a Standard of Quality would be a BIG necessity . Has anyone actually talked with any of the e-bay management?? Maybe if they were bombarded with e-mails from unhappy buyers, they would re-think...??? I haven't had enough coffee this morning to think/type straight, but you catch my drift, I hope. Boy, and I said I wasn't going to post, and wrote all of this! Sorry, it took so long to say so little! haha..kb

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:24:29 EDT From: QuiltFixer@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: A change of subject, back to quilts Message-ID: <8c27385b.35bded2e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I recently was offered a quilt to buy that was supposed to be turn of the century. It certain looked like it was from that date. However, it was big enough for a king sized bed. Since it was very expensive, a little warning light flashed on for me and I did not buy it. Do any of you know some information on sizes of quilts from that time and how common it would have been to have made such a large quilt.? My first thought was that the blocks were original, but they had been made into a larger quilt more recently. Toni B. QuiltFixer@aol.com ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:41:02 +0000 From: Jocelyn Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT . Has anyone actually talked with any > of the e-bay management?? Maybe if they were bombarded with e-mails from > unhappy buyers, they would re-think...??? Karen, There's a mechanism on eBay, where you can register your opinion of merchants. Unfortunately, I think a lot of folks just don't bother. I know I didn't say anything about the piecing stitches, because the man readily admitted when I asked it point-blank, and it was certainly vague as to whether I'd misunderstood or whether he was intending to cheat. The fact that it WASN'T clear, IMO, was indicative that he wasn't both knowledgable and honest...but I couldn't testify as to which trait was missing. I agree, there are good Internet quilt merchants out there. My decision was to shop with Kris, and at least then I know what I'm getting, and for how much. I also didn't think there were ANY bargains on the eBay...not the way the bidding zooms in the last few hours of a sale! You may think you're bidding on a bargain, but the quilt that's going for $30 on Tuesday, may sell for $450 on Saturday. Jocelyn ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:52:49 -0400 (EDT) From: dcl924@mindspring.com (Diane Lockwood) To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Marking Antiques/Appraisers Message-Id: <199807281652.maa06885@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you to all who sent suggestions for permanently marking the antiques we inheritied. Bottom line is that we won't permanently mark the antiques. We will take very good photos and place the photos with detailed descriptions into our safe deposit box. There is good provenance (?) with many of these, thankfully. We hired an appraiser to value the toys we found in the attic. DH was kind to his childhood toys and we were astounded at how valuable they are. We asked the appraiser how to sell them. He did not offer to do so. He suggested we contact a couple of toy appraisers in the New England area but did not name any. He said to look in publications like "Maine Antique Digest". Then he said, "I'm off the clock now. Please tell me about all your antiques!" Turns out he is an antique dealer and collector, not just a toy appraiser. He purchased 5 items and then came back the next day with his wife and bought 13 more! We had a warm and fuzzy feeling with him and will happily recommend him to anyone who is interested. He is in the Marietta, Georgia area. We had the toy appraisal done prior to all the recent discussion regarding appraisals/buyers. If he had offered to sell our toys, we probably would not have hesitated but after reading the comments, it's good to know we should not deal with the same person for appraising and selling. Diane Lockwood Usually in Pollock Pines, Calif temporarily in North Georgia ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:07:55 -0700 From: "fall" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding leaving comments regarding the various dealers on Ebay- I have tried to leave comments, but it's pretty tough. You first choose to leave a negative, positive or neutral comment, then it gives you a line for typing your comment. Trouble is, this line only allows for very few characters - nothing more than a short sentence. It's difficult to leave much of anything! Has anyone else been able to leave a more detailed comment? If so, how did you manage it? Cheryl ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:12:49 +0000 From: Jocelyn Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > But keeping the matter private is what allows it to continue. It's well > known that people will say nastier things when no one's looking than > when it must be shown to others. Annastina, That's true. OTOH, we may not know the whole truth of the matter. Suppose I write a note to you that's rude. You write back to me, and are equally rude. I post your note---without MY original note-- to the list, and call you a flamer. At that point, anything you say or do is suspect. Odds are, you didn't keep a copy of my note. If you did, and you post it, what happens if I say, 'I NEVER!' Basically, by being the first one to object, I get the benefit of presumed innocence. If a note is published without the context, judgments will be made that may not be fair to the sender. I still resent Mrs. Ellis, my 3rd grade teacher, who set me in the hallway for telling her 'pet' that the deer she was making looked like a mule. I did it...after that little brat had turned to me and made a derogatory comment about my work. The fact that the teacher's pet responded to my tit-for-tat by bursting into tears instead of acknowledging that she'd picked on someone who could give as good as she got, and the teacher assuming that the crying child was 100% victim and the child who was taking her lumps was 100% victimizer, resulted in a very unjust situation that still rankles decades later. We don't need that to happen here. > One of two things happen when the flames are posted to the > list. One, the group will tell the offender to please back off and not > be so nasty or it is revealed that the victim is no victim at all and is > over-reacting to another's opinion. In either case, the subject is > usually dropped then and there. The first thing can happen without naming names, and without betraying someone's confidence. If you think you were unfairly treated, you can ask the list publically for feedback. The 'flamer' can see whether the list supports her opinion or not. Second, more often than not, if you don't answer, the flamer shuts up. Some people have the fantasy that the flamer will continue to attack them, day after day after day. Personally, I've never seen it happen. If I ignore a message I feel is argumentative, I've never had that person email me again saying, 'You ignored my last message!' Not saying that it can't happen...just that, ignoring usually works. Jocelyn ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:25:57 +0000 From: Jocelyn Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I recently was offered a quilt to buy that was supposed to be turn of the > century. It certain looked like it was from that date. However, it was big > enough for a king sized bed. Since it was very expensive, a little warning > light flashed on for me and I did not buy it. Yes, some very old quilts were very large. Beds were not a 'standard size'. If you made your own mattress from a sack of ticking and stuffed it yourself, you could make it whatever size you liked! I would guess that a very tall man might have an extra-long bed in his room, whereas his children's beds might be shorter than average to give more floorspace in tiny Victorian bedrooms. I have friends who have a Victorian child's bed, that's both shorter and narrower than a twin bed, by about 2". So the wife of the aforementioned Victorian gent, would have made quilts in varying sizes for the household. She also might have made a huge quilt for the master bedroom, if she wanted to use the quilt as a bedspread, particularly if the bedstead had very tall legs. Jocelyn ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:25:59 +0400 From: Xenia Cord Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another opinion - most, if not all, of the 100" square quilts (or thereabouts) that I have seen have been from before the middle of the 19th century. After that they seem to get smaller and more rectangular - set 5 x 6 or 6 x 7 smaller blocks, instead of the classic 2 x 2 or 3 x 3 large, with borders. It seems to me that the closer we get to the end of the 19th century, the "busier" the quilts get - more, smaller blocks, smaller pieces, more involved designs - as though there were a movement to cram as much as possible into the design surface. Since this was certainly a Victorian decorating ideal, it makes sense that it also carried over into quilts. Also, although beds may not have been standard size, they were factory made (as were mattresses), which created a certain standardization. And while double beds were the norm for most marrieds, the healthful single bed of simple design and washable surface became more popular toward the end of the century, especially for children. (Remember that a generation of young men had been wiped out by the Civil War, so families and children were very important). I think quilts would follow these trends, as form follows function. We don't begin to see larger, or standardized quilts until the rise in popularity of the kit quilt in the '20s. Most "standard bed" kits were 72" or 74" x 90". My feeling is that Toni's instinct may have been correct - she was offered a quilt with late 19th century blocks, augmented with borders or whatever to make a larger quilt. Just another view. -Xenia, in Indiana ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:58:07 GMT From: celia@eddy.u-net.com (Celia Eddy) To: qhl@cuenet.com Subject: Re: QHL: QHL - I'm feeling lonely over here Message-ID: <35be1d48.34217011@mail.u-net.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could we have more contributions from this side of 'the pond'?=20 > >: Has anyone been to the Shipley Art Gallery exhibition ? Is it as = good as it sounds? If you are going to either of the Harrogate shows = this year would you care to meet? What about the new Quilters Guild of = the British Isles (don't you find the new name cumbersome?!) Quilt Study = Group - I've got my ticket for the inaugural meeting, have you? > >Hi, Sally, Don't despair! I'm sure more UK quilters will eventually come on-line but it IS a bit slow to happen. Yes, I've been to Shipley. Went to the launch in fact. Interesting. Weel worth a visit by any overseas visitors if they're here before 30th August. It's very much the personal choice of the curator, Helen Joseph, although she gave the quilters she chose freedom to exhibit anything they liked. Result: eclectic is one word. Love to know what you make of Dinah Prentice's work, to mention just one of those involved. Unfortunately there's no catalogue and my memory isn't good enough o give you a quilt-by-quilt run-down. I'm hoping to go back for a longer consideration. If you CAN get there, I'm sure you'd find it worth while. Of course, the antique quilts, exhibited in a seperate room, are wonderful as ever. Trouble is, I always come away feeling they outshine the modern stuff! (Just my idiosyncracy, I expect.) Posting this to QHL just to prove that UK quilters are wired up! Look out, everyone, for my new Website, QuiltStory. Not on-line yet but soon. Watch his space! Greetings to all QHL ers, Celia in UK ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:47:48 -0500 From: Swede Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Yes, some very old quilts were very large. Beds were not a 'standard >size'. True enough. My Swedish grandparents lived in a virtual timewarp until the 1960's. All of the furniture, linens, etc. were early 1900's or made in the same style. Gifts from their own parents were still in use. The thing that always struck me as quaint was it was very common for them to push two single beds together, or two singles and a full, or one single and a full. And my grandmother who made her own quilts and feather ticking, had all the different sizes to accomodate the different sizes. Annastina --

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:49:07 EDT From: AMDOODAH@aol.com I vote for ending the flame thread, too, and will offer up a new subject for discussion. It has become more and more the norm for quilt shows NOT to inform their contestants whether they have won a prize. Many times, quilters find out only upon receipt of the quilt upon its return home. We are all aware that AQS has changed its policy the past two years. I can understand their wish to heighten the suspense by announcing the winners from the stage during the banquet. But the actuality has been that there are very few winners in the audience --they didn't know to come! It seems a bit anti- climactic, to me, to have all the sponsors standing onstage to present awards, only to stand with the award in hand, no one to award it to. Last year, I received a call from a friend who had gone to the Wmsburg show. She insisted I had won a ribbon, and of course, I kept asking why had she REALLY called? As it turns out, I actually had been awarded --my first ever "big" win --I slept three hours, and drove 20 hours just to see for myself. Spent all my prize money just to see if it was true -- DUH. Another list that I am on has been discussing the high cost of entry to national shows --and the fact that hundredsof people pay the fees, even tho they do not get accepted. Wouldn't you think that it would be feasible for them to notify the winners? I'm not too worried about it myself -- the chances of me ever winning again are pretty remote. But I do have a lot of friends/clients who WANT to know, and WANT to go to the shows and share in the joy and excitement when they win. Any thoughts from you all? Teddy Pruett, WInter Garden, FL. ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:25:41 -0400 From: "Phyllis Twigg" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDBA4C.BE835200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDBA4C.BE835200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am in the process of helping to set up a web page for the Annapolis = Quilt Guild. We are seeking a picture of a nice classic quilt to use as = the background (watermark) of the page. This would need to be a = non-copyrighted photo or picture. Any suggestions for accomplishing this = task would be appreciated. Thanks ! Phyllis Twigg=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDBA4C.BE835200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable " I am in the process of helping to = set up a web=20 page for the Annapolis Quilt Guild. We are seeking a picture of a nice = classic=20 quilt to use as the background (watermark) of the page. This would need = to be a=20 non-copyrighted photo or picture. Any suggestions for accomplishing this = task=20 would be appreciated. Thanks ! Phyllis = Twigg

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:32:16 -0600 From: Sharon Harleman Tandy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello QHLers, Another new thread and a request for information regarding Solomon's Choice. Somewhere in the last ten years I've heard (or read) of the cut-up quilts which were distributed among family members referred to as Solomon's Choice. Q.#1. Can anyone give me a reference as to book, magazine, workshop, seminar, etc where I may have read it? Q.#2. Can anyone tell me of any research (aside from Mary Cross' recent 16th century find!) on cut-up quilts from the early-to-mid 19th century? I've already checked all of Uncoverings titles (did you all know that their website has a _complete_ listing of subjects/authors?) and most of my own books, but I do remember reading about them somewhere. Thanks for anything you've got! Sharon Harleman Tandy ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:47:29 EDT From: Qltldy10@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Thoughts on ebay, no quilt content. Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, no acquisitions recently (see previous post on old black sewing machines), but thought Id review where I've been in the past few weeks: Northern Comforts at Sturbridge Village. Wow, gasp, is all I can say. Now, chintz and block prints, early 19th century, are my favorites, and there they were!! They are hung/set so you can get pretty close, although the alarms were going off all over during the breaks between lectures (I was at "What's New England About New England Qults?"). The colors are stunning, and makes me wonder why those colors and glazing can't be/aren't done today. OK, cost. But I am the woman wanting a redo of Hewson's vase! They will be doing an all day lecture on printing fabrics in Colonial America, somewhere around the third of October, I think. Vermont Quilt Show. While it sure seemed like there were fewer quilts (but I think they were just smaller), the antiques, once again, were superb. If you are an antique lover, and of course you are, the VQS always brings antiques that may never be shown elsewhere. Some of the small town hostorical societies loaned quilts for this one. One caveat- non made me gasp... Oh yes- I bought the little black box at the Lowell Museum booth, a four patch applique, and guess what?!? the swag is on the other way!! Shelburne Museum on Saturday- the cover quilt from Enduring Grace is out! I looked for so long, I found my DD sitting on the bench just watching me. More great chinztes, although no allover chintzes. At least 4 red and green appliques, though. Also out was the sunflower that Hoopla did the pattern for. In addition, they had some of the winners from their fabric contest displayed as well. REally nice to see things made from the fabrics... easy to see the color differences, althoguh would have been better to have had the Ann Johnson quilt there too, which it was not, just a big picture. Good news: they had the Japanese magazine/show catalog from the Japaneese tour they sent. I didn't buy it in Vermont last year due to price, but the Shelburne had it at a price I could afford... I came away wanting to stop at the local antique mall and the buy the hunk of copperplate "Joan of Arc"- only one weeks worth of grocery money needed... Sorry for the bandwith Beth in MAine qltldy10@aol.com ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:10:34 -0600 From: Sven Olsson > I recently was offered a quilt to buy that was supposed to be turn of the > century. It certain looked like it was from that date. However, it was big > enough for a king sized bed. Since it was very expensive, a little warning > light flashed on for me and I did not buy it. Do any of you know some > information on sizes of quilts from that time and how common it would have > been to have made such a large quilt.? My first thought was that the blocks > were original, but they had been made into a larger quilt more recently. Toni > B. > QuiltFixer@aol.com ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:51:13 -0700 From: Kathleen Ballard Beth wrote: In addition, two of the bed rugs in Stafford and Bishop's Quilts and Coverlets have slices for the bedposts, also... Beth, What are bed rugs? How are they different from coverlets, bed spreads and quilts? Kathleen ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:47:05 -0600 From: Kathy GaulWell, I've been buying old black sewing machines off of ebay, and after todays >arrivals, I'm sworn off! After about 8 purchases of Singer related things, I >can't say I would have bought them had I seen/handled them in person. My DH >says "Neither did anybody else. That's why they are on ebay." Of course, >some folks deal only on ebay, but they are probably not quilt "dealers"... > > Beth in Maine > qltldy10@aol.com > ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:37:48 +0400 From: Xenia Cord To: "'QHL@cuenet.com'" Subject: QHL: Canadian Appraisers / Swastiska Quilt Message-ID: <01bdba73.7c4d7ba0@quilts> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings from one of your bashful lurkers who has a question and a = mystery to be solved. First off, many thanks to all the comments about getting quilts = appraised and how to "appraise" the appraiser. With several old family = quilts and tops, it's prompted me to get most of them appraised. Does = anyone know of an appraiser that lives in the Toronto (Canada) area ? I = don't mind driving for an hour or two, or to send quilts locally via = special delivery. Also, I'd appreciate information about a family quilt mystery. About 6 = months ago, a cousin set about to clean an old quilt that had occupied = the family bassinet for multiple generations. When she opened it up, she = discovered that it was in fact a two-colour quilt, approx. 40" x 54" = that consisted of 12" blocks of pale pink swastikas on pale muslin. - 36 = swastikas in all. By working backwards through memories of family usage, = we are only able to date the quilt as sometime before the mid 30's. The = pink fabric looks somewhat like a double pink, and the entire quilt is = also hand pieced and hand quilted. Has anyone run into this block design = before ? Haven't been able to find it in Brackman, or else I'm just not = looking in the right chapters. Please also know, that it is not my intent to directly or indirectly = disparage anyone who is German or of German extraction - but to simply = place the quilt in historical context and see if there is a story behind = this design. Could this pattern be of a regional nature, since there is = a large German population west of Toronto, or does anyone know of it = being used in the States? Is there anyone out there that still have, or = has had, a quilt of this design in their family?=20 Many thanks to all for your educational and entertaining comments. = Cheers, Bizmark - the happy "lurker" in Toronto. ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:26:23 +0930 From: Karen Bush I'm drooling! Will there be pictures to see??? I can't Imagine having all that wonderful history around me! Not to mention the toys! I LOVE collecting old toys, mostly farm machinery, I have scaled miniature tractors all OVER my kitchen! LOL....kb ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:43:02 EDT From: QuiltEvals@aol.com To: qhl@cuenet.com Hi all, I was lurking around the web this evening and I found a site called "Covered Wagon Quilts". http://www.coveredwagonquiltworks.com Does anyone know anything about them? Had any experience buying from them? They had some VERY nice quilts listed....wonder (from all of the ebay discussion) how accurate they are with their descriptions. Any questionable comment should probably be made privately to avoid potential problems. Thanks, Debbie ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:44:10 -0400 From: anniedes@juno.com (Annette Desautels) We have a swastika quile in our family. It was made in 1920 by my grandmother. She was German and the swastika was a good luck symbol at that time. This pattern was also published in the Kansas City Star and I have the clipping from that paper. Annette Desautels anniedes@juno.com 

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:28:16 -0400 (EDT) From: JOCELYNM@delphi.com To: quilts@inforamp.net, QHL@cuenet.com > Please also know, that it is not my intent to directly or indirectly = > disparage anyone who is German or of German extraction - but to >simply = place the quilt in historical context and see if there is a >story behind = this design. Could this pattern be of a regional >nature, since there is = a large German population west of Toronto, or >does anyone know of it = being used in the States? Is there anyone out >there that still have, or = has had, a quilt of this design in their >family?=20 Bizmark, I bought a swastika quilt earlier this year, and have seen several others. They are not always known by that name...mine was sold to me as a 'seesaw' quilt, and I've seen others called by other names. The swastika is not soley a German design. Its name is Sanskrti, and means 'welfare' or 'good luck'. It is also used as a good luck symbol by some Native American tribes. I've seen it set in tiles on buildings, as well as used in textiles. When Hitler decided to take it over, he reversed the direction of the swastika's rotation. The good luck symbol rotates in one direction, the Nazi symbol in the opposite direction. (and I don't remember which is which). A quiltmaker who used a swastika design would not necessarily have a German connection. However, it's virtually certain that an American quiltmaker would not have used it after Hitler came to power, because of the negative connotations of the design. So most swastika quilts will date prior to 1940. Mine is roughly 1930....which makes sense that a woman would use a 'good luck' pattern during the depth of the Depression! Jocelyn ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:45:41 -0700 From: arlenegg@icanect.net I agree with Joan about E-bay. I've become quite addicted to it, always checking to see what's new, and have purchased quilts and other things. I love looking at old quilts and feel I've gotten an education just from following the auctions. I honestly think that most the dealers are not dishonest, but merely ignorant, and some clearly state that they know nothing about quilts. I often find their descriptions funny. For example, I've often seen twin-size quilts described as very large, or extremely common patterns refered to as "quite rare", and the term"near mint condition" to describe what is basically a cutter quilt. On the other hand, some sellers give extremely detailed descriptions and go out of their way to describe faults. If you read the description and ask questions, and if you know something about quilts, you should be able to determine it's worth (or it's worth to you.) Just to protect yourself, deal only with sellers who will except returns. Arlene ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:54:30 -0400 From: "susanlk" To leave a comment of more than 80 characters on ebay feedback, the simplest way is to leave two comments .That gives you 160 characters which will accommodate a good concise factual description of the transaction. I think that's better than just negative opinion which would easily be washed out by the over 850 positive comments one dealer I was warned off has! For ex., I suggest saying " edge was frayed over half its length; there were more than 10 holes of over 1/4" diameter" etc. rather than what MOST of the comments are, e.g.,"wonderful to deal with, would deal again" or "prompt, courteous.." all subjective opinion rather than factual, specific to the item. I think it's important to point out that the "feedback" on ebay is very limited in its value; I have read strong complaints on their bulletin board from people who are afraid to put negative feedback because of threats of retaliation. Then it's " he says, she says" and the value of a rotten deal is lost as a warning to others. I have been on a couple of lists for long enough to have established relationships with several people who have provided both warnings and in also names of sellers who have been scrupulously careful and who value their reputation more than a quick sale (or steal!!) and stand behind their item, with a good return policy. Also, I'd like to say I won't bother with the people who insist on POSTAL money orders; I've asked one person why and she tells me bank money orders are easier to fake...when I ask why not accept a check since she would wait for it to clear, and what protection by the way does the buyer have who sends off money and then hopes for the best!! Her reply (to buyer risk) was : "feedback", which for some reason doesn't apply to the seller, at least in her case!!! I'd rather deal with someone who is willing to take my check and the small risk (compared to my risk sending my money FIRST and hoping to get product later) that the check will bounce and they'll pay a fee. There needs to be some balance in the risk sustained by the parties to the transaction it seems to me...it shouldn't ALL be on the buyer. ( I hope this doesn't become another tempest in a teapot...just a buyer's response to that policy!!) SusanLK ------------------------------ I looked at the book catalog mentioned, also, and noticed QUILTS OF PROVENCE, which has had glowing reviews, and a few other heritage/technique titles. Also, some Kaffe Fassette titles. Kaffe's work (though I did not care for his patchwork book -- too simplistic, though the colors were terrific) is very inspiring, even if you don't do needlepoint or knit! Hang in there, everyone, and let's support each other, instead of tearing down. Cindy P.S. Kat, the double-pink quilt sounds lovely. If the price justifies keeping it, then yes, I'd wash it. Becky Herdle's method from TIME-SPAN QUILTS (AQS) might be just the ticket, if you don't have the resources to do it the conservators' way.

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:36:40 -0700 From: "fall" I have a little mystery here. I received a lovely piece of fabric, solid, offwhite with a brocade-type of patterning woven into the piece. I did a standard butn test to try to determine the fiber content because I thought it might be fun to incoporate this fabric into a quilt I'm currently designing. It came from an estate sale my mom happened to visit. Anyway, I cut a 1/2-inch square and flared her up! Instead of getting a burn - no smoke, no woody odor, no melting, no bead of melted fiber - nothing. Just one very large poof and then it was gone! I thought I must have missed something, so I tried again - same results. What the heck is this stuff? I think I'll make a runner for the dining room table instead. Cheryl

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:32:52 GMT From: celia@eddy.u-net.com (Celia Eddy) Thought it might be time to give a progress report on the (proposed) British Quilt Study Group Bookings are good for the Inaugural Quilt Study Day at the Whitworth Art Gallery in Manchester, 31st October. (E-mail me privately if you want to know more.) The Study Day IS OPEN to visitors as well as to members of the Quilters' Guild of the British Isles! It will PROBABLY be alright to just turn up on the day, but it's as well to book in advance if at all possible. The programme for the Day includes Dorothy Osler, internationally renowned as the leading expert on North Country Quilting, and three members of the Guild's Heritage Committee speaking about aspects of Turkey Red, ANDa Show and Tell of antique quilts in the Guild's Heritage Collection. And there's more!! Running concurrently at the Whitworth, from 11th September to 15th November, is a major exhibition by four leading British Quilt Artists: Pauline Burbidge, Jo Budd, Dinah Prentice and Michele Walker. Called TAKE 4: New Perspectives on the British Art Quilt, it includes both new and restrospective work by all four artists. Overseas visitors who want more information about this and other aspects of quilting activity in UK can e-mail me AND look at the next issue of The Virtual Quilt website, which will have some UK content. Greetings to you all, Celia. ------------------------------ D

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:20:45 +0000 From: Jocelyn > Anyway, I cut a 1/2-inch square and flared her up! Instead of getting a > burn - no smoke, no woody odor, no melting, no bead of melted fiber - > nothing. Just one very large poof and then it was gone! I thought I must > have missed something, so I tried again - same results. > > What the heck is this stuff? I think I'll make a runner for the dining room > table instead. Cheryl, For some reason, as I read your note, the word 'cellulose' popped into my mind. It's been 20 years since I had organic chemistry, so I can't retrieve any more information than that. Perhaps one of our fabric fibers persons will know more, but I seem to vaguely recall the use of organic plant fibers in making fabrics, with the results being called 'cellulose fibers'. FWIW, if you make a table runner for your dining table, I wouldn't dine by candlelight if I were you! Jocelyn ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:41:40 +0100 From: "Karen L Martin" I am intested in any information you may have on the Pine Tree block. Finley's book says that it is colonial and the icon for the 13 colonies before they took on the stars and bars. Have you seen any colonial pine tree quilts? -- Karen Martin, Executive Secretary

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:46:13 -1000 (HST) From: Bruce Hughes To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Hawaiian Quilt Patterns Is this permissable--to send it out this way to the list and to also list it in the digest? If so, please do it for me; if not let me know Aloha, C. ______________________________________________________________________ Aloha quilters, Now I am researching another project and wonder if you can help. I am an active member of the Hawaiian Quilt Research Project which is a non-profit organization registering and documenting Hawaiian appliqued quilts, Hawaiian flag quilts and red-and-white embroidery quilts. Were any of your husbands at one time in the service and stationed in Hawaii? If so, did you attend any classes in Hawaiian quilting at that time? Do you have any patterns stashed away? These patterns are being lost because they are old and sometimes not valued. Please contact me if you have patterns that you would copy for me or send me the pattern and I will copy it and return it. I will of course pay for postage to and from Maui and the cost of copying. Also, tell me whom you took lessons from, for how long, where, how you were taught. Did you do any Hawaiian quilting? Do you have any photos? Most of our research has been here in Hawaii, using "Quilt days" for folks to bring their own quilts in. But I think there may be old patterns on the Mainland and I am asking you to hunt yours up, if you have any. Would any of your friends or relatives have such patterns? Also would you ask about this in your guilds? Mention it in your newletters? Put it on other chat lists for me? THE HUNT IS ON! and you can be an assistant HUNTER..................... Aloha pumehana (warmest aloha), Charlene Hughes on Maui ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:48:28 +0400 From: Xenia Cord Some quick, down-n-dirty research on the Pine Tree pattern in Brackman's Encyclopedia of Pieced Qilt patterns yields an entire section on trees with triangles for leaves, in which she notes that the earliest example of a quilt with this block is a sampler dated 1865 in Telegraphics 7/5/1978. I don't knowe this publication, but perhaps a university library would have resources. Finley had a lot to say about quilts, some of which may not be based on the kind of resources we have available today. The fact that the pine tree was a colonial icon does not necessarily lead to colonial quilts of Pine Tree design, I think. Does anyone have a primary reference to the pattern before 1865? Xenia, in Indiana ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:06:29 EDT From: Qltldy10@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com OK, all, I'll attempt to explain bedruggs for Kathleen, but please all help is appreciated. Bedrugs (bedrugg, bedrugge) are bedcovers, probably thick and heavy, some crewel, others knotted loops (?). Very few survive today, those that do are dated mostly to 18thish to early 19th century. Luckily, many of the survivors are dated. Some have been made in America, and were thought by some to be an American evolution. More than likely, though, they were also imported, and, I think, show up in Scandanavia as well as Central Europe. Don't know where I remember that from. My latest perusing was last two nights, multiple pages of them in Stafford and Bishop. Usually see just a few in other quilt related texts. To me, many of the patterns seem related to Indian prints..... any others? Beth in Maine qltldy10@aol.com ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:18:06 +0400 From: Xenia Cord To: QHL@cuenet.com Patterns related to the swastika are Fly Foot and Crazy Ann. A lot depends on the set - which way the pinwheel turns, and whether the angles follow the edges of the block or are on point to them. Xenia ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:48:47 -0500 From: Mary Waller This design has been around in many cultures, including Native American, Chinese, Peruvian, (East) Indian, and others I can't recall immediately, up to 10,000 years ago. The four arms are sometimes correlated to a four-footed or four-legged design, the Wheel or Circle of Life (Native American), the Eye of God, a sunwheel, etc. It's still use a lot in India. It is a symbol of good luck and the four arms can represent Life, Love, Luck and ? In Brackman's Encyclopedia of Pieced Designs, the version with half-square triangles is listed as Flyfoot, 10,000 Chinese Perfections, Wind Power of the Osages, Whirligig, Catch Me if You Can, Battle Ax of Thor, Peruvian ??? and others. The version more like the Nazi symbol is #2577. "Flyfoot" seems to be a derivation from German or another East European language word, "flyfootn", "flyfoodn" or something similar and again, I can't remember the details here. "American Quilter" had an aritcle approx. 3 or 4 years ago on symbols that appear in many cultures and uses this as an example. I can locate that if someone wants to know the issue. The QRS journal had an article about a year ago. Apparently, there were many quilts of this design as signature quilts. There's a wonderful 1930's red and white signature quilt with names embroidered on in the Cultural Heritage Center in Pierre, South Dakota. There were 4 of these started by the participating women, and one of that set may be in the CHC's collection as a top only. Although this was a popular pattern, many quilts of this design are believed to have been destroyed or recovered because of the association with Hitler and Nazi Germany. I've seen this design printed on double pink fabric and in green and blue on a light background in a 1930's DWR top. It's also a registered cattle brand for a ranch in South Dakota (don't know if it's still an active one). I also have a yellow and white quilt with 25 of these blocks and a zig-zag border, probably 1920's and it's one cheery quilt! I've thought about making quilts with this design, and perhaps as a beginners' class or project, because it's so easy to piece and would be a vehicle for some education. Any offense is in the interpretation and I certainly wouldn't try to minimize the meaning of this symbol in connection with the Nazi's, but IMHO, that's just a very small part of the history here. Mary Waller in SD

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:59:11 -0700 From: Barbara To: QHL@cuenet.com I usually lurk here, but I'd like to tell you all about the swastika quilt that was pulled from the display at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in Simi Valley, CA. Back in May, both a swastika-motif quilt and a "Demise of Sunbonnet Sue"-type quilt were pulled from their then-current quilt exhibit. Because a handful of people complained about the quilts, they were taken down. According to an article in the 5/30/98 Ventura Star, "The Spirit of St. Louis quilt...was stitched in the 1930s, when tributes to Charles Lindbergh were in vogue." The exhibit, "America Remembers: Quilting the 20th Century", opened in April and was scheduled to run until Oct. 4. Then in a small article ("Quilt Exhibit down early") on 7/11/98, it was revealed that the "exhibit has been quietly removed"...three months before it was scheduled to close. Library officials would not comment specifically as to why the popular exhibit was taken down. There were no press releases announcing the exhibit's early departure or giving the reason for the action. The exhibit was intended to show how women this century began to use quilting for personal, political and artistic expression. It included a 21-foot by 10-foot memorial quilt to victims of the Oklahoma City bombing. If anyone would like to contact the Reagan Library, their email address is library@reagan.nara.gov. Some members of my guild helped hang the show, and at our last meeting, the motives of the curators were still a mystery to us. I thought the members of this list might be interested in this information. Thank you! Barbara Wunder Black, Ventura, CA ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:25:42 EDT From: JBQUILTOK@aol.com fall@teleport.com wrote: >I received a lovely piece of fabric, solid, offwhite with a brocade-type of patterning >woven into the piece. I did a standard burn test to try to determine the fiber content >because I thought it might be fun to incoporate this fabric into a quilt I'm currently >designing. It came from an estate sale my mom happened to visit. > >Anyway, I cut a 1/2-inch square and flared her up! Instead of getting a >burn - no smoke, no woody odor, no melting, no bead of melted fiber - >nothing. Just one very large poof and then it was gone! You said it poofed when you lit it? And you're going to make a table runner? Hope you don't plan on using candles on the table! And a warning label on the back might be helpful when the next owner goes to use it. Sounds pretty, though. Janet ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:48:21 -0400 From: "Peggy O'Connor" The term I've read for a swastika, in conjunction with PA Dutch designs, = is 'fylfot' (no, that's not a typo). Those designs have curved 'arms' = on the swastika. See figure 1.23 in Anita Schorsch, Plain and Fancy, = Country Quilts of the Pennsylvania-Germans for a painted example (a = chest of drawers from 1818). Interestingly, this example shows two = swastikas, one with arms bending right, the other with arms bending = left. I've been wondering if there are any applique examples of this = design, with the curved arms - anybody seen such quilts? I'm just settling into my new home, and building space for quilt = storage. I do have archival boxes for quilts. My question is should I = worry about what the boxes sit on? I planned on shelving of painted = plywood, but should I cover that with something else before putting the = boxes on them? Peggy The term I've read for a swastika, = in=20 conjunction with PA Dutch designs, is 'fylfot' (no, that's not a = typo). =20 Those designs have curved 'arms' on the swastika. See figure 1.23 = in Anita=20 Schorsch, Plain and = Fancy, Country=20 Quilts of the Pennsylvania-Germans for=20 a painted example (a chest of drawers from 1818). Interestingly, this example shows two = swastikas, one=20 with arms bending right, the other with arms bending left. I've = been=20 wondering if there are any applique examples of this design, with the = curved=20 arms - anybody seen such quilts? I'm just settling into my new home, = and building=20 space for quilt storage. I do have archival boxes for = quilts. My=20 question is should I worry about what the boxes sit on? I planned = on=20 shelving of painted plywood, but should I cover that with something else = before=20 putting the boxes on them? Peggy

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:17:21 -0700 From: "fall" Don't worry about the burn-test all. I decided to just give that mystery hunk back to mom and let her deal with it. I think it should just be tossed (I know it hurts) rather than risk anything. I was thinking it may have been exposed to something unusual for it to have poofed like that. Possibly a finish that maybe disintigrated into chemical residue or something far-fetched like that? Oh well. Thanks for all of the input. I appreciate it! Cheryl ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:30:31 -0600 From: Sharon Harleman Tandy To: "Peggy O'Connor" CC: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Swastika Message-ID: <35c0c9d6.5364@micron.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peggy and all QHL'ers, Those who have the digests may be able to pull up the thread we had (was it last fall?) on swastikas. Here in Idaho I found a quilt with a curved-arm swastika quilted into the alternate blocks of a Carolina Lily made about 1850-1870. Found out afterwards that this shape is very common in the Basque culture as a religious and good luck symbol. It is called a _laburu_ in their language and apparently is also common in their homeland in Spain and France. Since then I have seen it on seveal quilts but not appliqued. A slide of the Carolina Lily is included in one of my presentations, _Historic Quilts of Idaho: 1813 to 1990. Sharon Harleman Tandy, Quilts & Answers, Boise, Idaho. ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:46:40 -0400 From: "John and Cinda Cawley" On page 12 of the September Quilter's Newsletter there's a picture of = Marie Webster's Pointsetta which is part of an exhibit now in Japan = featuring the work of Webster, Carrie Hall and Rose Kretsinger.. The = article says that a 128-page catalogue called American Quilt = Renaissance: Three Women Who Influenced Quiltmaking in the Early = Twentieth Century is available from the Quilters Hall of Fame, P.O. Box = 681, Marion, IN 46952. No phone # or price info. Kris, could you check = this out for us? It sounds like something I'd like to have. Cinda in Scranton ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BDBBD9.A0771CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On page 12 of the September = Quilter's Newsletter=20 there's a picture of Marie Webster's Pointsetta which is part of an = exhibit now=20 in Japan featuring the work of Webster, Carrie Hall and Rose = Kretsinger.. =20 The article says that a 128-page catalogue called American Quilt=20 Renaissance: Three Women Who Influenced Quiltmaking in the Early = Twentieth=20 Century is available from the Quilters Hall of Fame, P.O. Box 681, = Marion, IN=20 46952. No phone # or price info. Kris, could you check this = out for=20 us? It sounds like something I'd like to have. Cinda in = Scranton

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:14:14 EDT From: JKusnitz@aol.com Darwin I tried to retrieve your site but couldn't get it. I was so excited because I just came home to find your mention of pincushion chairs and I found a rocking chair in an antique store in Virginia. I would like to see what yours looks like. Mine is wooden with a cushion seat and back. A hole in the back for a scissor, a drawer that pulls out underneath and a section on each side that holds six spools of thread. Helene (exhausted from Colonial Williamsburg and 2 days of roller coasters at Busch Gardens with the kids-but fun) ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:01:30 -0400 From: Jean Ann To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: don't look in QUILT Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don't look in QUILT magazine for an article about swastika quilts. Sadly, this symbol has forever become a symbol of evil because of what Hitler did in Germany. Before WW2 it was a good luck symbol. Words and symbols do change through use and this is one that has been vilified for all time. QUILT magazine will never, ever print an article about Swastika quilts as long as I am the editor. I have too much respect for my Jewish brothers and sisters and the loss they all suffered to risk offending them in this manner. Jean Ann Eitel, Editor

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:44:40 -0400 From: godzilla@ns1.uconect.net (Robinson) To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: CT's heritage quilt project Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Earlier in the year, someone on this list asked for information on Connecticut's quilt heritage project (Connecticut Quilt Search). This past weekend, I attended the Northeast Quilt Festival in Cromwell and stopped by at the Quilt Search table to see how they were progressing. They have finished with their public quilt documentation days, and are now in the process of writing their book on the quilts that they have documented. Right now they are trying to raise funds to put out the book -- the woman I spoke with said it costs $100 for each color photo they want to include. They have just been contacted by Yankee Magazine, who will give them $10 for each magazine subscription they can sell as part of Yankee's "Community Partners" program. I visited Yankee's web-site, but "Quilt Search" hasn't been added to their on-line list of community partners as yet. Quilt Search doesn't have an on-line address that I know of, but their contact person is Sue Reich, 28 Scofield Road, Washington Depot, CT 06794. Sue Robinson godzilla@ns1.uconect.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:18:10 EDT From: QuiltCat26@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V98 #216 Message-ID: <3cc4710d.35c13779@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-30 21:53:53 EDT, you write: << The term I've read for a swastika, in conjunction with PA Dutch designs,="is" 'fylfot' (no, that's not a typo)>> I acquired a turkey red and white swastika quilt top from Indiana a few years ago, and Merikay Walkvogel had examined it at a conference in Midland, Michigan, and was quite impressed with the top. She suggested that I just back it to use as a coverlet rather than trying to quilt it. I have it stored at the moment, but now my interest has peaked again with the current thread in QHL. Thanks for the reminder! Nancee Grand Rapids, Michigan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:19:25 EDT From: @aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Cheryl's exploding fabric Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I think her idea about the fabric having been treated is probably correct. Recently a chemist did some tests on a remaining scrap of fabric from the envelope of the Hindenburg. He's a former staff member of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and an expert on hydrogen explosions, and he noticed that the burn rate (and color of the flames) during the Hindenburg disaster did not match a standard hydrogen fire. It went way too quickly and burned orange, not white. What the chemist learned on testing the remaining scrap was that it had been waterproofed and painted silver *using some of the same chemicals in nitro cellulose*! That's right - the Germans encased a few million cubic feet of flammable gas in gun cotton. The only mystery is why the Hindenburg didn't go up several months earlier. I saw film of the tests on the remaining fabric, and it basically vaporized when touched with a flame, just like Cheryl's fabric. Heaven only knows what's doing it (especially on a pseudo-brocade), but washing the fabric might help remove whatever chemical agent is causing the *poof* effect. I'd also tell your mother to keep it away from flame. Pretty is nice, but having part of your house turn into a miniature zeppelin pyre is not my idea of fun.... Karen Evans ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:52:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Marcia Kaylakie To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: beeswax bags Message-Id: <199807311452.jaa21765@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone, I lurk quite often but now have an interesting question for our group. I recently purchased an antique quilt privately and the former owner said that when his mother bought the quilt in 1947 from the original owner, that it came in a beeswax bag and that he remembers seeing it. The quilt is certainly from the 19th century and I wondered if anyone had heard of a beeswax bag before. I can not find any reference to this item anywhere in my resources. Any takers on this one? Marcia Kaylakie in Austin, TX (yes, it will be over 100 again today) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:28:33 EDT From: Palampore@aol.com To: susanlk@erols.com, QHL@cuenet.com Subject: Re: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V98 #209 Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My husband is a dealer and yes, he also appraises. When he appraises he gives the person a replacement value based on what the going retail is which is what insurance folks want. With this he gives a written report and a list of the organizations his is affiliated with in the antique world. He also charges a fee for this service because he is tired of the public being dishonest. Too often people come in and say they want to sell an item when in fact they just want a free appraisal. That wastes lots of his time. So he is up front immediately and tells them if they decide later to sell the item and he decides to buy it, he will refund their fee. But mind you the most important credential is looking around his shop. People wanting info. on a fine antique Oriental rug should not ask us for market value of one because we don't have any therefore our only knowledge would come from a book. He does best on appraising items he knows and sells. Then if they want to sell he tells them what he and other dealers would pay. They are then free to go out and see other dealers to check and see if he is being honest. He encourages 2nd opinions, just as any good doctor would do. If people would research and compare doctors, car dealers, real estate brokers, antique dealers, etc. they would all be forced to be more honest, but instead people are often too lazy, too gulible, and also greedy. There are people out there who will sell a car in a car paper for a price and feel just fine until they see one the next week sell for $--- MORE and then they think they got stiffed! It is called business! So who ever you go to----look for honesty and longevity. We operate out of a building not a PO box so we can be found if anyone has any questions. End of soap box---- Now on to antique quilts----I never heard from anyone (and I asked) about brown fabric being used as backing. When was it in "style"???? Brown as in floral, striped, solid. I was at the SE Reg. meeting of the Costume Soc. of Amer. this weekend at Harpers Ferry WVA. Took a class on "huswifs"----sewing kits used during the 1800's and on into 1900's. Saw a great slide presentation and many antique ones. I have 3 in my collection, but I never knew there was such a variety. My favorites are the ones of leather with the rolled pillow at one end. Mary Kay I need a copy of your new book. Where can I get one? My best to all, Lynn Lancaster Gorges, Textile Conservator, New Bern, NC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:42:36 EDT From: Palampore@aol.com To: QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Sorry Message-ID: <8c322844.35c1f3fe@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I had been away for 2 weeks, so I apologize for saying 1 word about dealers/appraisers. Let's kill the topic! Now back to burning of fabric to determine content. In most cases it is not very reliable for sizings, finishes, blending of fibers, etc. can alter this test. It should be combined with a microscopic examination and then chemical testing for a truly accurate test. The burn test probably works best on pre-20th cent. fabrics. Cellulosic fibers come from natural plants and examples are: cotton, flax, hemp, jute, ramie, rayon..... Rayon is a bit different from the others because a base raw material (such as wood pulp) is put into a solution that is then extruded through an extruder and hardened into a fiber. (Think of a pasta maker!) It can be modified to have many different textures, etc. Check out basic home ec. books in your library for fun reading about fiber production. On to moving boxes into my new studio. Lynn Lancaster Gorges, New Bern, NC ------------------------------