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Quilters Find a way to care

98358

 

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:04:52 -0600 (CST)

From: akcruz@ix.netcom.com (Alfonso & Alice Cruz)

About 2 wks ago, I was able to attend a talk by

one of the co-authors of this book, Jackie Tobin, in Fremont

Nebraska. Her co-author is Raymond Dobard btw. It was hosted

by the Prairie Piecemakers, a local

quilt guilt. Jackie is a native of Fremont & chose her hometown

for the first stop on the speaking tour. I don't

know if I have spelled names correctly - my apologies if I

have not. I did take a few notes that night, but most of

this is from my memory, jogged by those notes.


An interesting night, which has me looking forward to actually

being able to read the book! Of course, in just 1 short speech,

she could not possibly tell all the details. Or want to - else

we would have no reason to buy the book <G>. Her story is that of

a woman she met in South Carolina, who told her about a code

hidden in quilt blocks. This code was used by slaves to help

them escape to freedom in the north via the URR. One small

but important point - the subtitle of the book is A Story of

Quilts and the URR, *not* THE Story...... Ms. Tobin emphasized

this. She feels that this story is one of many & hopes that the

publication of her book will encourage the telling of other

stories that have been kept secret to this point.


Her story came from a woman named Ozella McDaniel Williams.

She was born in the 1920's (my estimate from ages given) &

died quite recently. Her story was of 10 quilt blocks, how they

were put together in a certain way and the code told in the form

of a story. The quilt blocks & the code were not intended to be

used as a map, but as memory triggers. It seemed to me that

this quilt (tied, not quilted) would have been made at the site

where the slave lived, but not carried along on their escape.

It might have been used to teach other slaves the code,

sort of a primer on escaping, the route to take, where to go.


Ms. Tobin talked about tying multiple knots & the number &

the location of the knots being significant, but I did not

understand this at all. "leave on the 5th knot of the 10th tie"

is the way I remember it & it *still* doesn't make sense!

I hope the book gives the detailed explanation required to

understand this part of it. She did talk about how the ties on

the back would form a grid, which would bea good basis for a map,

but didn't go further.


The authors did quite a bit of research to connect specific

African tribes to slaves in the So Carolina area. Then they used

African culture, traditions & a well developed textile knowledge

to explain how the slaves could communicate with symbols in cloth.

Tribal secret societies were quite common & they all had their

own codes & communications, many in textiles.


The escape route used would have taken the slaves to Cleveland,

Ohio, then into Canada. Ms. Tobin saw a slave quilt in

Dresden, Canada. A log cabin (red centers) which we saw in a slide.

She gave some detail about the authenticity of this quilt, which

I'm sure is in her book.


Those pesky black LC centers were mentioned as being a sign

of a safe house by Ms. Tobin. She seemed to accept this as

fact, but she also pointed out that in the African

tribes, "black cloth" was usually not black, just a very dark

indigo, but it was referred to as "black" in color.


All in all, it was a fascinating evening & I am looking forward

to reading the book when it comes out.



Alice Cruz

The Quilted Chile

akcruz@ix.netcom.com


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:41:49 EST

From: JBQUILTOK@aol.com

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: Re: QHL: Gulp!

Message-ID: <3d7711ca.3670b09d@aol.com>

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<< when you make a quilt, it's given away to be spit up on, slept

 under and have done to it what will be done by its new owners.  But it was

 kind of a shock to have so many hours of painstaking work almost doomed by

 being relegated to a nursery school naptime quilt!   >>


If the quilt was made with energy to sustain the boy, why object to it going

to nursery school?  Those are some long, lonely hours for a child in the midst

of turmoil at home.  The heirloom is now safe with Daddy and he gets to use it

what, every other weekend?? 


My step daughter distroys everything that reminds her of me - so when I had

her 5 yr old son for 3 months this summer the quilt we made when together

fast.  He helped & it was my first attempt to machine quilt with my new

Bernina.  I hope that if it doesn't survive, the memory of helping make it

will!


Janet


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:06:23 -0000

From: "Sally Ward" <sward@t-ward.demon.co.uk>

To: <qhl@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: Gift quilt

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Have to agree with Janet that even if Mum meant sending the quilt to =

nursery school as an insult, I would have taken it as a compliment, as =

its far more use to him in that stressful environment than it is at =

Dad's house.   The quilts our group have made for the childrens hospice =

are wearing out fast - we take that as a sign they are doing their job. =

(and which of your old teddies do you love more - the pristine one or =

the disintegrated one? <G>)


Sally



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Have to agree with Janet that even if Mum = meant sending=20 the quilt to nursery school as an insult, I would have taken it as a = compliment,=20 as its far more use to him in that stressful environment than it is at = Dad's=20 house.   The quilts our group have made for the childrens = hospice are=20 wearing out fast - we take that as a sign they are doing their job. (and = which=20 of your old teddies do you love more - the pristine one or the = disintegrated=20 one? <G>)

 

Sally

 



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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:35:27 -0800

From: "R Carroll" <Robert.J.Carroll@GTE.net>

To: <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: plastic bags

Message-ID: <01be24d8$e59d9c00$a6582599@r.-carroll>

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Hello!  I have heard that some museums are returning to storing textiles =

in plastic bags.  They feel that in a controlled environment there are =

more advantages than disadvantages.  Protection, from insects, and =

excess dirt being two.  Several years ago a friend of mine had an awful =

year with three deaths in the family. It fell to her to deal with the =

contents of two households. She inherited a couple of dozen quilts along =

with boxes and boxes of other things which she shipped home from the =

Midwest.  They filled her garage, her spare room, and she had to store =

some outside on her covered patio.  It took her several years to deal =

with all of this stuff and she finally got to the boxes on the patio.  =

My friend is a longtime quilter who loves quilts and she was shocked to =

discover that there were quilts in these boxes!  They had been misplaced =

and mistakenly left outdoors several years.  But when she had shipped =

them she had placed them in large plastic trash bags.  Well the bags had =

protected the quilts all those years, because when she removed them from =

the bags they were in perfect condition!!  Laurette


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Hello!  I have heard that some = museums are=20 returning to storing textiles in plastic bags.  They feel that in a = controlled environment there are more advantages than = disadvantages. =20 Protection, from insects, and excess dirt being two.  Several years = ago a=20 friend of mine had an awful year with three deaths in the family. It = fell to her=20 to deal with the contents of two households. She inherited a couple of = dozen=20 quilts along with boxes and boxes of other things which she shipped home = from=20 the Midwest.  They filled her garage, her spare room, and she had = to store=20 some outside on her covered patio.  It took her several years to = deal with=20 all of this stuff and she finally got to the boxes on the patio.  = My friend=20 is a longtime quilter who loves quilts and she was shocked to discover = that=20 there were quilts in these boxes!  They had been misplaced and = mistakenly=20 left outdoors several years.  But when she had shipped them she had = placed=20 them in large plastic trash bags.  Well the bags had protected the = quilts=20 all those years, because when she removed them from the bags they were = in=20 perfect condition!!  Laurette



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Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:25:53 -0500 (EST)

From: quiltsnbears@webtv.net (Roberta Geanangel)

To: maurybynum@textileconservators.com

Cc: QHL@cuenet.com (QHL)

Subject: Re: QHL: Sewing Machine

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Maury...excuse me for a belated WOW! I recently managed  to read my

Nov/Dec issue of "Piecework" and the needlework on page 72  is awesome!

I cannot believe someone could do this. Is this going to a museum? (Just

curious.)

For those of you who haven't seen it...you really need to do so. And if

this was mentioned previously I apologize, but I'm a few months behind

in my mag reading.

Roberta


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:24:01 -0500 (EST)

From: quiltsnbears@webtv.net (Roberta Geanangel)

To: qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Just a word of caution

Message-ID: <26389-36711CF1-366@mailtod-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

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A reseacher has to be careful of "memories" that are passed down through

generations, the spoken word is often embellished upon. (I recently

retired from the field of research).I am often reminded of the

following: my DH spent a period of time in the 1960's at the bottom of

the Grand Canyon with the Havasupi. He had recently been discharged from

Army Intelligence and was "breathing free". A friend was there teaching

and writing ("Life In A Narrow Place" by Stephen Hirst) so my DH was

free to wander during the day. He spent time observing and listening to

the natives.Finally, he decided to ask why the stories of their customs

which they were telling "outsiders" differed with each telling. This was

the response:"We tell people what they want to hear. We don't know what

these things really mean anymore."   Sometimes, in our zeal to recreate

the past, we cause people to "put words" into their own mouths! A true

story teller will always "play to his audience".The danger lies in our

believing them. Many books have been written based on false assumptions

and incomplete memories. Just a word of caution.

Roberta


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:52:22 EST

From: CToczek@aol.com

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: quilt etc....

Message-ID: <37fea11e.36712396@aol.com>

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Advice please...not too long ago I caught a quick note about getting wax out

of textiles.  Ironing or something?  Of course I passed over it and now need

it.  Candle wax spilled onto a new, quilted table runner.  Any suggestions

would be welcome.


On a funny note, my four year old son was looking through quilts and patterns

with me yesterday when he saw an interesting one.  "What's this, Mom?" he

asked.  "It's called Broken Dishes," I replied.  With the dignity and maturity

of a proud pre-schooler, he gently corrected me.  "No, Mom, those are

triangles!" 


Best to all,

Carla Toczek

West Point, NY


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:32:57 -0800 (PST)

From: Marilyn Maddalena <marilyn@crl.com>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Space bag storage

Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.981211082843.3748A-100000@crl.crl.com>

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


All the information I've ever read about quilt storage comments that

fabrics need to "breathe" and should NEVER be stored in plastic for any

length of time.  Storing them this way to protect them during a move or

some shorter period of time, such as shipping them to a show, would be

all right as it would protect them from whatever might come in contact

with the quilt -- liquids from other packages which might break,

broken and flooding water heaters (!) or such -- but to keep them in one

of these bags with no air circulation would deteriorate the fabrics, not

to mention the creases which would form and become almost permanent.  I

certainly would not recommend it.  Marilyn in Sacramento 


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:09:03 EST

From: JQuilt@aol.com

To: qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Just a word of caution or anthropology Q&A"talking to outsiders"

Message-ID: <642ca609.367151af@aol.com>

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I read that many of the young Samoan women...felt the same way about telling

Margaret Mead, what they thought she might want to hear...so sometimes

"legends" are just that...they have either been embellished or curved for the

listener's appreciation...that's another reason anecdotal material isn't used

for medical tests..


However  myths, fairy tales and  legends have always been a major part of my

world..so lots of times when I hear a tale of the underground railroad, or a

pioneer tale..I just think of it as a fascinating story....


Most of what we read in so called history books, newspapers etc...is a slanted

version of the event....following editorial policy...

jean

jquilt@aol.com


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:43:22 -0500

From: Vivien Lee Sayre <vsayre@nesa.com>

To: qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: True or Not True Legends

Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981211134322.0096c6c0@mail.nesa.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Hi All,


I have been following the 'legends' thread with a great deal of interest.

Your posts are very interesting and right on the money.


I do a series of communication seminars in the high-tech industry. The

participants are from all job levels, ages and nationalities. One of the

activities used is the simple telephone chain. In this case however, we

begin with a visual image (picture from a Life magazine etc.) which is then

passed on verbally. Invariably, the message is changed with the third

person. I have used this activity with thousands of participants and it

never fails to be changed with this person. After that, various

embellishments are added, the number dependent on the number of persons in

the group (7 to 10).


Try it sometime at a party or gathering and see what happens.


Vivien in Mass.

 


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:30:25 +0000

From: Jocelyn <jocelynm@sw1.socwel.ukans.edu>

To: qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: Re: QHL: Just a word of caution

Message-id: <C398C02093@sw1.socwel.ukans.edu>


> A reseacher has to be careful of "memories" that are passed down through

> generations, the spoken word is often embellished upon. (I recently

> retired from the field of research)

Roberta,

        Absolutely! And even within one's life time-- If you keep a journal,

it's fascinating to re-read it and discover how differently you

recorded an event from how you remember it.

        When you have a person who only heard the story, and didn't live it,

you have double-edge sword on the date they heard it. The younger

they were, the more likely that the memory of the storyteller was

accurate, but the less likely their OWN memory is.

        A person born in 1920 would be hearing about events that occurred 70

or so years before she was born. It's possible that a very old (90+)

person was telling a very young person (<10) this story...but more

likely that an intermediary was repeating a story s/he'd heard. The

question is, how far back is the original storyteller? Every time the

story's retold, it has a tendency to change. A story that's told by

Great-Grandma, who lived it, to Susie, is more reliable than if Susie

hears the story from Mama, who heard it from Aunt Belle, who got it

from Cousin Annemarie, etc.

        The story about the counting textiles makes the most sense of any

I've heard so far. OTOH, I'd have more faith in it if it had been

recorded before the resurgence of interest in things African, that

was inspired by ROOTS. For example, after Roots was aired, many

families selected African names for their children. This wasn't

because those names had been handed down in the family, preserved

throughout slavery, but because modern-day people researched their

ancestors and chose names they might have used. Maybe slaves

continued using their traditional counting textile techniques. But

it's also possible that this legend was a modern interpretation by

someone who knew about the African tradition.

        I still find it hard to believe that if this were a common practice,

there are no period sources documentation. We know about slaves being

secretly taught to read and write, and that was illegal. Was the

history of slaves really so male-dominated that the quilts were

viewed as insignificant?

Jocelyn

Jocelynm@delphi.com


------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:44:14 -0000

From: "Sally Ward" <sward@t-ward.demon.co.uk>

To: <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: Chinese Whispers

Message-ID: <000401be2540$34525c20$eb58e4d4@bob>

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Is the old game of Chinese Whispers played all over the world? It is =

just the same as Vivien's telephone chain, seeing how the message comes =

out at the end.  The classic (probably apocryphal) illustration is the =

WW1 officer who sent the message from the front lines 'Send =

reinforcements - we are going to advance' which ended up with the =

bewildered generals at the rear as 'send three and fourpence we're going =

to a dance'.  I know I am already altering stories of my grandparents =

because a) I like to embroider a good yarn but, more honestly b) I can't =

remember the originals that accurately.


Sally


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Is the old game of Chinese Whispers played all over the world? It = is just=20 the same as Vivien's telephone chain, seeing how the message comes out = at the=20 end.  The classic (probably apocryphal) illustration is the WW1 = officer who=20 sent the message from the front lines 'Send reinforcements - we are = going to=20 advance' which ended up with the bewildered generals at the rear as = 'send three=20 and fourpence we're going to a dance'.  I know I am already = altering=20 stories of my grandparents because a) I like to embroider a good yarn = but, more=20 honestly b) I can't remember the originals that accurately.

 

Sally



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:22:48 -0700

From: "Jeanne.Fetzer" <Jeanne.Fetzer@integrityonline3.com>

To: "R Carroll" <Robert.J.Carroll@GTE.net>, <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: Re: plastic bags

Message-ID: <002a01be2544$1768caa0$3ee399d0@jeanne.fetzer>

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I have to disagree that there are museums storing things in plastic =

bags.  There isn't a reputable museum with a good conservator who would =

ever suggest such a thing.  There are generally two acceptable methods =

used.  Both involve acid free materials - which also need to be replaced =

every few years.  The first method is to roll the quilt on a large tube =

of acid free material that looks like a regular mailing tube.  If a =

quilt is in delicate condition, acid free - usually unbuffered - may =

even be rolled inside the quilt to help protect it.  A danger in using =

tubes is that the stitches can pop on a quilt as it remains rolled.

The second method ist to place them in acid free boxes with generous =

amounts of acid free tissue between any creases or folds - kind of =

rolled accordian style before putting into place with the quilt.  The =

tissue paper acts as and additional layer of protection and adds height =

between layers. =20

I have worked with two excellent conservators - and though your friends =

quilts were okay in bags, the long term effect - I am talking decades - =

would be disasterous.  Plastics do deteriorate and the chemicals will =

impact a precious textile.  I think there are other better methods.  =

Even in a flood situation.  It would be better to wash the quilt after =

the flood.   =20


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I have to disagree that there are = museums=20 storing things in plastic bags.  There isn't a reputable museum = with a good=20 conservator who would ever suggest such a thing.  There are = generally two=20 acceptable methods used.  Both involve acid free materials - which = also=20 need to be replaced every few years.  The first method is to roll = the quilt=20 on a large tube of acid free material that looks like a regular mailing=20 tube.  If a quilt is in delicate condition, acid free - usually = unbuffered=20 - may even be rolled inside the quilt to help protect it.  A danger = in=20 using tubes is that the stitches can pop on a quilt as it remains=20 rolled.

The second method ist to place them = in acid free=20 boxes with generous amounts of acid free tissue between any creases or = folds -=20 kind of rolled accordian style before putting into place with the = quilt. =20 The tissue paper acts as and additional layer of protection and adds = height=20 between layers.  

I have worked with two excellent = conservators -=20 and though your friends quilts were okay in bags, the long term effect - = I am=20 talking decades - would be disasterous.  Plastics do deteriorate = and the=20 chemicals will impact a precious textile.  I think there are other = better=20 methods.  Even in a flood situation.  It would be better to = wash the=20 quilt after the = flood.    



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:23:25 -0800

From: "R Carroll" <Robert.J.Carroll@GTE.net>

To: <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: re: plastic bags

Message-ID: <01be254c$7cbdac60$055e2599@r.-carroll>

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I was asked where my friend lives.  We live in southern California where =

the humidity is usually about 50%, although right now it's very dry.  =

And yes,  the humidity does make a difference.  My brother lives in =

North Carolina, and they have trouble with mildew on everything there, =

it doesn't have to be in plastic!  I want to make it clear that I'm not =

suggesting anyone store their textiles in plastic.  Mine are all in =

muslin or new acid free paper.  Just wanted to point out the exception =

to the rule.  Laurette


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I was asked where my friend lives.  We live in = southern=20 California where the humidity is usually about 50%, although right now = it's very=20 dry.  And yes,  the humidity does make a difference.  My = brother=20 lives in North Carolina, and they have trouble with mildew on everything = there,=20 it doesn't have to be in plastic!  I want to make it clear that I'm = not=20 suggesting anyone store their textiles in plastic.  Mine are all in = muslin=20 or new acid free paper.  Just wanted to point out the exception to = the=20 rule.  Laurette



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:58:40 -0800

From: "R Carroll" <Robert.J.Carroll@GTE.net>

To: <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: plastic bags and rolling quilts

Message-ID: <01be2551$699e18e0$055e2599@r.-carroll>

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Jean, the museum in question, is one which has had trouble with insects =

from time to time because they have carpets in their collection. I'm =

sure they are aware of the pitfalls of plastic. I have also heard that =

rolling a quilt over a tube causes the batting to shift slightly, and =

the fabric to wrinkle to one side which can become permanent. Has anyone =

else heard this? I took a quilt appraisal class and the instructor said =

that he had curated a show where the quilts had been stored like this =

and when they were hanging the quilts looked odd, with the tops pushed =

to one side.  Laurette


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Jean, the museum in question, is one = which has=20 had trouble with insects from time to time because they have carpets in = their=20 collection. I'm sure they are aware of the pitfalls of plastic. I have = also=20 heard that rolling a quilt over a tube causes the batting to shift = slightly, and=20 the fabric to wrinkle to one side which can become permanent. Has anyone = else=20 heard this? I took a quilt appraisal class and the instructor said that = he had=20 curated a show where the quilts had been stored like this and when they = were=20 hanging the quilts looked odd, with the tops pushed to one side. =20 Laurette



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:56:00 -0800

From: "Fall" <fall@teleport.com>

To: <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: Plastic bags

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Regarding the humidity in California issue:


I thought there was more to it than just humidity - I have always been under

the impression that the plastic bags can chemically react with the fabric,

or the plastic can break down releasing certain chemicals that can be

harmful.


I would never store anything in a plastic bag - no matter where I lived.

Acid free tissues and boxes are my choice.

Cheryl


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:13:12 -0700

From: "Jeanne.Fetzer" <Jeanne.Fetzer@integrityonline3.com>

To: "R Carroll" <Robert.J.Carroll@GTE.net>, <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: Re: plastic bags and rolling quilts

Message-ID: <001601be2564$4713f480$29e399d0@jeanne.fetzer>

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Rolling quilts has a couple of problems -- the first is that they cannot =

be rolled tightly which could cause the kind of shifting that the =

exhibitor was talking about.  The quilts also need to be unrolled =

periodically and somehow museum staffs sometimes have a hard time =

getting to that.  I have suggested that our local guild offer to do that =

as volunteers - under the supervision of the curator or registrar.

   Though mylar can be rolled on top of the quilt on the tube- which I =

believe can also be acid free -  it attracts dust to the quilt if not =

closed on the edges.  Perhaps it would be a solution to keeping bugs =

out.  Rather than putting things in plastic, I would probably have to =

seriously consider some way to keep the bugs out of the storage area.  I =

know that I live in a dry desert climate without that problem, but I =

guess that other museums have figured out a way to deter insects.

I'm always glad for reminders of proper storage.  Someday I'll even get =

my own textiles in order!!!  You know, it's like the shoemakers kids =

with no shoes. . . =20


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Rolling quilts has a couple of = problems -- the=20 first is that they cannot be rolled tightly which could cause the kind = of=20 shifting that the exhibitor was talking about.  The quilts also = need to be=20 unrolled periodically and somehow museum staffs sometimes have a hard = time=20 getting to that.  I have suggested that our local guild offer to do = that as=20 volunteers - under the supervision of the curator or = registrar.

   Though mylar can be = rolled on top=20 of the quilt on the tube- which I believe can also be acid free -  = it=20 attracts dust to the quilt if not closed on the edges.  Perhaps it = would be=20 a solution to keeping bugs out.  Rather than putting things in = plastic, I=20 would probably have to seriously consider some way to keep the bugs out = of the=20 storage area.  I know that I live in a dry desert climate without = that=20 problem, but I guess that other museums have figured out a way to deter=20 insects.

I'm always glad for reminders of = proper=20 storage.  Someday I'll even get my own textiles in order!!!  = You know,=20 it's like the shoemakers kids with no shoes. .=20 .  



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:33:31 -0500 (EST)

From: JOCELYNM@delphi.com

To: sward@t-ward.demon.co.uk, qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Gift quilt

Message-id: <01J583H0UQQU910F2O@delphi.com>

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   > Have to agree with Janet that even if Mum meant sending the quilt to =

   > nursery school as an insult, I would have taken it as a compliment,

And who knows? Maybe she thought it was pretty, and her child loved it, and

she thought it would be a nice thing for him to have at naptime. Maybe the

child wheedled to take it, and she decided to let him, since it meant so

much to him.

I know lots of people who would put a quilt on the floor for a child to nap

on...I lie on the floor with MY quilts! When I was in KG, our nap 'rugs'

were kept neatly folded on shelves when we weren't napping, and muddy shoes

were cleaned off before we re-entered the school! <G>

Jocelyn

 


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