Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:27:29 EST

From: @aol.com

<<

 Someone refresh my memory please - was it Marie Webster's Quilts, Their

 Story and How to Make Them that perpetuated the myth of Colonial Quilting?

 Did she also refer to naming quilts? 

  >>

I think you're right, Kris.  Marie Webster was a pioneer, but she

created/perpetuated a *lot* of misunderstandings.  If you're interested in

medieval quilting, check out Averil Colby's "Quilting."  Thoroughly documented

and very, very interesting.

Karen Evans

Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:03:04 +0400

From: Xenia Cord <xecord@netusa1.net

Judy raised the question of 19th century quiltmaking tools, following

her visit to the America Hurrah booth of Kate and Joel Kopp at the

Armory Antique Show.  Her questions provoked some thoughts in my own

mind:

1.  Did those quilters wax their threads?  When I joined this list we

were discussing the possibility that quilters used to use ear wax to wax

their threads, and you don't want to go there!  But they did use bee's

wax to keep their threads from fraying.  See Jenny Yearous's wonderful

article on thread development in the 1998 issue of Uncoverings (AQSG).

2.  How did they quilt so finely, given the light and the equipment?

Well, most of them had years on us in terms of familiarity with a

needle, and you know yourself that the longer you quilt, even day by

day, the better your stitching gets.  Also, they were not limited by

pre-sized batting with a regular but predetermined thickness.  They had

"wadding." which was loose and was carded into thin layers by the

quilter herself.  The thinner the batting, the smaller the stitches can

be, right?

3.  Judy asks how they had time during the day, as their days were

filled with other tasks for which we have labor-saving appliances.

Well, our labor-saving stuff often makes us work longer and harder at

what we do, and much more is often expected of us.  And IMHO, one reason

women did quilting was because it was a pleasurable task that allowed

them to sit down!  Think how many of the jobs they did required them to

stand, or stoop, or walk; maybe only milking and churning and spinning

flax (not wool) let them sit down?

Well - grist for the discussion mill, maybe -

Xenia

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:23:11 +0400

From: Xenia Cord <xecord@netusa1.net>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Perpetuating myths

Message-ID: <36A61F04.7CBF@netusa1.net>

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<< Someone refresh my memory please - was it Marie Webster's Quilts,

Their Story and How to Make Them that perpetuated the myth of Colonial

Quilting? Did she also refer to naming quilts? >>

Not Webster, but Ruth Finley, in Old Patchwork Quilts and the Women Who

Made Them.  She has a chapter on the origin of quilt names, and on on

quilts in early America (colonial America).  She even says 1880 marks

the end of quiltmaking as an art (she says this in 1929!) .  "As a

universal medium of feminine expression, quilt-making ceased to exist.

It vanished in the general night, as it were, of hideousness." (page

197).  This she lays at the various doors of Victorian excessiveness in

decoration, Queen Victoria's raising of mourning to an art form,

cultural scar tissue caused by the Civil War, increased electric and

steam mechanization, colleges for women, and women's equality in the

economic scheme of things.

Anyone writing before us <G> has made errors in understanding and

interpretation of our quilt history.  We still have misunderstandings

and controversies about our quilt past (the UGRR and quilts, for

instance!).  But Finley's pronouncements are often  creative, excessive,

and unfortunately still taken as gospel.

Xenia

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:37:36 -0500

From: Miklos Lukacs <mlukacs@webbernet.net>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: QHL-backstitching

Message-ID: <36A5EA30.B51@webbernet.net>

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Hi, I am from the Midwest, Michigan, I started quilting about 7 years

ago.  Took lessons from local quilt shop, Gerweck's.  Was taught the

backstitch.  Use it whenever handpeicing.  Hugs to all,  Connie L.

Monroe, MI

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:35:38 +0000

From: Steve and Jean Loken <sandjloken@worldnet.att.net

I'd never heard of big stitch before it was raised here, but I guess the

Bible was right, "There's nothing new under the sun."  I was privileged to

see a c. 1930s quilt today, which was done in all big stitch.  The blocks

were embroidered, small floral bouquets on white blocks, with wide sashing

in mustard yellow, also a wide mustard border.  The big stitch was in a

pretty diagonal grid, with many crossings, cable-like, in yellow #3 ? perle

cotton.  No apparent stamping to indicate a kit. The turned in edges were

blanket stitched in same perle cotton, and the filler appeared to be

flannel.  This was from a Minnesota estate, must have been a summer cover

<g>.  It was most charming.  Lucky buyer!

Jean in snowy Minn.  (And I helped document 3300 quilts from our state

search, and no big stitch that I remember there)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:35:52 -0600

From: "Gail Richter" <richter2@frontiernet.net>

To: <QHL@cuenet.com>

> 2.  How did they quilt so finely, given the light and the equipment?

We used to have kerosene lanterns at the cabin before electric reached

us.  A good kerosene lamp throws a lot of light.  A lot of Amish still

don't use electric.

> 3.  Judy asks how they had time during the day, as their days were

> filled with other tasks for which we have labor-saving appliances.

Think how many of the jobs they did required them to

> stand, or stoop, or walk; maybe only milking and churning and

spinning

> flax (not wool) let them sit down?

Don't forget--not everyone lived on the farm.  My ancestors were city

people & somebody else did the milking, curning, spinning & butchering.

 Household chores were another matter of course.

Gail R

in Wis.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:35:46 EST

From: JQuilt@aol.com

when  I use my apple corer...i hold the wooden handle in my left hand and lay

the corer down lengthwise on the quilt with the serrated edge up in the

air....then put the sharp point of the pin as it comes out of the quilt.. in

the teeth and bring the head of the pin down to the point and close it...just

the way you would use that $6 closing tool...it works so well and it doesn't

put a strain on your hands at all.

try it you'll like it...

jean

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:33:36 -0600

From: "Gail Richter" <richter2@frontiernet.net

> I'd never heard of big stitch before it was raised here

Hi,

I've only seen the big stitch once before.  Where can I learn about the

technique?

Gail R.

Up in the sticks in WIs.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:59:54 -0500 (EST)

From: JOCELYNM@delphi.com

On 20-JAN-1999 00:20:24.5 oldquilt said to JOCELYNM

   > Dobard is less sure about other instructions in the code, such as the

   >need= to

   > "exchange double wedding rings." He believes that might refer to

   >breaking= both

   > the mental and physical bonds of slavery.

Kris,

     I always thought that the double wedding ring pattern was a 20th

century pattern!

     Has it even been established that Monkey Wrench or Bear's Paw were the

names used at that time, in the South, for those patterns?

Jocelyn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:02:24 -0500

From: Alan Kelchner <quiltfix@mail.jax.bellsouth.net>

In the bit that was kindly written onto the list, there was mention of

"breaking (?) the double wedding ring". I don't recall having seen a

double wedding ring made before 1900.  I know, I know, there are the

variations (pickle dish, etc), but if they weren't doing the DWR, why

would they refer to the others as such? Guess I'm going to have to go

get the book.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:38:23 -0600

From: "Sehoy L. Welshofer" <sw4quilt@bellsouth.net>

To: "QHL" <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: no knot hand piecing

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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:43:17 -0500

From: "jawhite@courant.infi.net" <jawhite@courant.infi.net>

Hi Vivian.  I am from the midwest and that's where I learned to quilt.

I was taught in handpiecing to backstitch at the beginning and the end

of seamlines and never, never to use a knot in the thread to begin or

end a seam.  That is the way I teach beginning quilting also.  However,

when I moved to New England (CT), I found people here using knots in

their handpiecing.  I collect vintage tops and blocks and have found

backstitching in the middle of seams in some of them; now, however, I

will be more observant and note where I got a particular top or set of

blocks.

Judy White - Ct

-----------------

Judy - so glad to hear this! There's absolutely no need for knots in hand

piecing.

You made my day!

Sehoy in TN

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:38:21 -0600

From: "Sehoy L. Welshofer" <sw4quilt@bellsouth.net>

To: <Birdsong@worldnet.att.net>

Cc: "QHL" <QHL@cuenet.com>

Subject: QHL: backstitching

Message-ID: <005001be4543$4fdc0fe0$1e01a8c0@patrick>

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Karen - I'm a Carla Hassel fan (author of 'You Can Be a Super Quilter'), and

learned early on to take 3 or 4 stitches, pull the needle through, then

start the next needle full with a backstitch. This is what she refers to as

the "piecing stitch" as compared to a simple "running stitch". This makes a

really secure  seam, and if there's a break in the thread some years from

now, the seam will only open for about 1/2" and stop.

Sehoy in Tennessee, where the "piecing stitch" is alive and well! <G>

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:47:44 -0600

From: KAREN BUSH <Birdsong@worldnet.att.net>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: back stitching

Message-ID: <36A551E0.7354@worldnet.att.net>

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How many of you backstitch a seam when you are hand piecing a block?

        got my hand up, here....I do!

I was reminded of this recently while taking apart a damaged block that

contained 1886 cheater cloth. It had backstitching in the middle of each

seam.

        And, that's how I do it,too. Especially on a long seam. I start from

the middle, or 3/4 of the way to get a good grip on the piece, get that

sewn and then flip it over and finish the seam.

        But then, I was taught by my Mom in sewing clothing, and that's how she

did it. Mother was a professional seamstress/tailor from England, I

don't know if that's any help or not,....but, I'll get to your

questionaire now! :) kb

From: Peggy Notestine <notestine.11@osu.edu>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Hi friends,

        Thanks you all for the many ideas I received for my sore finger and

using the big stitch.  What follows is the combined list of suggestions:

        1. Ice

        2. R.I.C.E. (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation)

        3. 15 minute quilting periods followed by rest

        3. Use gloves for hand/wrist support that are out on the market now.

        4. Use "finger cots"  on the tips for better grabbing of the needle

        5. Use " Thread Heaven" on the floss before using.

        6. Use Perle cotton sz 12 instead of floss ( was going to do that

but I didn't have the right shade when I decided to start this....I'll know

better on the next quilt.

        7. The following products were recommended for pain relief:

                "Promotion" by Advocare - a glucosomine formulation

                "Arnica" gel - sold in Natural Foods store

                "DMSO"

                "Zostrix"

        8. Watch for excessive bending of the wrist, which will only add to

the discomfort.

        9. Use a needle with a larger eye to help ease the floss through -

like a sashiko needle.

        10. And Finally, get a friend or two to help when doing a bigger

project with the big stitch!  - I like this one!

        Thanks again for all your suggestions!

        Now in regards  to backstitching, I was taught this in a class in

Cincinnati, OH on handpiecing.  I have seen it in one old quilt top from the

1890's to 1910 period (a Thousand Pyramid quilt) and I do it when I am

handpiecing. Every 5 to 10 stitches, then one backstitch.

        Finally, I also have a very old linen sampler (16 x 20 inches

maybe).  It is dated 1812 or 1818, quite faded, until you look on the back

and see the truer colors.  It has a little verse and the person's name.  I

received it as a wedding gift from my dad who found it in the bottom of a

large box of frames he was bidding on at an auction.  The price for the

entire box? 1 (that's a "ONE") dollar.  I showed it to a lady once about 15

years ago who told me quite a few things about it...stitches used, and that

it was probably done by a girl less than 10 years old.  She also told me to

quickly remove it from the old frame it was in as there was barn siding on

the back which she said would eventually eat through the cloth.  I would

love to have it  cleaned/restored/reframed as well.  Any experts in the Ohio

area?

        Peggy Notestine in Columbus, OH 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:56:55 -0700

From: Eileen Trestain <ejtrestain@earthlink.net

I learned to quilt from my grandmother, who was from southern Illinois.

I lived in Michigan, Texas, and Arizona.  In Texas and Arizona, I have

taught using the backstitch.  I piece with a millinier's needle, and I

fill the needle with stitches, pull through, and begin the next

gathering of stitches with a backstitch. Ideally, one should hardly be

able to tell from the top if a backstitch is used. I knot my thread at

the beginning and end of seams.

I collect lots of tops and blocks. On many of the quilt tops from the

1860-70's, I have found backstitching in use.  In quilts from the turn

of the century, I remember finding less, but have not made any sort of

scientific study (may have to do that just to see from my own

collection.  What I HAVE noticed is that almost all challis fabrics used

in blocks and tops have the edges overcast by hand, piece by piece, as

do some silks. If cottons and challis are used in the same quilt, often

the challis will be overcast, but not the cotton, so I thoought it was a

specific thing to note.

Eileen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:08:55 -0700

From: Elaine Baglo <elainb@pinc.com>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Hidden in Plain View

Message-Id: <l03110701b2ccfc0af6e4@[199.60.118.218]>

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I just had to comment that I recieved my copy of this from Amazon yesterday

and spent most of the evening with my nose stuck in it. My review so far,

considering I've only read the forewards from various people and a few of

the chapters, is that it's a very well written book and once you start

reading it you'll find it hard to put down again. The story is the words of

a black woman from Charleston, who is reciting what was passed down to her

about the underground railroad and how the slaves were told to 'read' the

quilts to get to safety. I don't know a lot about the history of all of

this, other than I find it fascinating (I'm a huge fan of movies like Gone

With the Wind and North and South). Being a Canadian, we were never taught

anything about American History, so I find that books like this are

fascinating and really make one think about all the hardships that went on

in the south during the civil war period. If I were to rate a book, I'd

give this one 'two thumbs up' and I think you'll all enjoy reading it. One

thing that I found interesting was reading through the bibliography - I had

no idea there were so many books written about the underground railroad -

makes me want to go out and find more.

Enjoy!

Elaine

elainb@pinc.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:21:35 -0500

From: "Peggy O'Connor" <mnoc@brinet.com>

To: "Quilt History List" <QHL@cuenet.com>,

        "Vivien Lee Sayre" <vsayre@nesa.com>

I took a quiltmaking class in the Atlanta area in 1997 and learned the

"piecing" stitch that Sehoy described.  I think, however, that the

instructor was originally from Ohio, so I don't know if the stitch is common

practice in the South.

Peggy, now in NC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:28:43 -0500

From: Jean Ann <quiltmag@mindspring.com>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: Re: QHL: Hidden in Plain View

Message-Id: <v0300780db2cd135b8192@[207.69.222.48]>

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Elaine if reading Hidden In Plain View makes you want to go out and learn

more about the Underground Railway then it was worth the printing. I am

still waiting for my copy from Amazon. I ordered and have gotten orders but

not that book. I wanted to take it to England with me next week to give to

a friend. Sure hope it gets here.

I live in a town that was the actual site of the last big battle before

Sherman took Atlanta. 10,000 yankee soldiers died here and when I drive

through the battlefield (which is a national park) I can almost feel their

blood crying out from the ground. It is a most eerie feeling. So much

sadness and tragedy because men couldnt sit and down and talk out their

differences to a peacable solution. We do need women in politics I am

convinced. I live walking distance from the battleground and all around me

are houses older than mine that housed occupation yankee troups after they

took over the town.

People sometimes laugh at southerners who don't let the war go. But if you

live in a town where the battle was THERE, you understand that the tragedy

of war goes down from generation to generation.

Jean Ann Eitel, Editor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:34:55 -0700

From: "Jeanne.Fetzer" <Jeanne.Fetzer@integrityonline3.com>

To: <Richter2@frontiernet.net>, <QHL@cuenet.com>

Read through Lynne Bassett's NORTHERN COMFORT exhibit catalog.  She

discusses the seasons of quilting.  The long daylight hours meant more

quilting was done between May and November, with May and October being the

busiest quilting seasons.  (In addition to daylight, I imagine that some

quilting was done outside to accommodate larger pieces and more women and

neighbors.  Their rooms weren't very large.)

When I visited with her in December she told me she is working on further

research about the seasons of quilting.  She also noted that she sees a

change between the early 1800's and later in the 19th century as to what

time of year women quilted.  More to come from Lynne!

Jeanne Fetzer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:21:56 -0500

From: Vivien Lee Sayre <vsayre@nesa.com

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:32:34 +0000

From: "Monika Jones" <monikaj@mail.cdsnet.net>

To: qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: RE: Double Wedding Ring

Message-Id: <199901212138.NAA20562@orbital.cue.com>

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Hi.......Alan, do you have " The Romance of the Double Wedding Ring

Quilts" by Robert Bishop ? He stated the earliest documented textile

In the DWR design to surface , is an embroidered candlewick bedspread

dated June 1897.

Many Quilt scholars believe the pattern emerged after the Civil War,

but again no real proof ( unless there is other info I'm not aware

off)

I've never made a DWR, but this book has some of the nicest Quilts

from that pattern.

Monika Jones

mailto:monikaj@cdsnet.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:59:15 EST

From: Baglady111@aol.com

<<

 I think you're right, Kris.  Marie Webster was a pioneer, but she

 created/perpetuated a *lot* of misunderstandings.  If you're interested in

 medieval quilting, check out Averil Colby's "Quilting."  Thoroughly

documented

 and very, very interesting.

 Karen Evans

  >>------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:35:24 -0600

From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.co@mail.airmail.net>

Monika, When Karen and I did our research for the Vintage Quilt and Textile

Society article we found that the design appears in all forms- from tiles

to jewlery to stitchery, but it does not appear in the textile form that

"we" know as the DWR until early in the 20th Century....and is believed to

have been drafted by either Hall/Kretsinger or McKimm Studios.  In my

collection of KCS patterns, it appears at least 3 times in different sizes

but only in the '30's. (which stands to reason since we have an over

abundance of them in the Texas area from the depression era)  Now, that is

according to my original clippings. Someone with the appendix or the

collection of patterns from the Oklahoma Guild may be able to offer more

exact dates. 

Laura

01:32 PM 1/21/99 +0000, Monika Jones wrote:

>Hi.......Alan, do you have " The Romance of the Double Wedding Ring

>Quilts" by Robert Bishop ? He stated the earliest documented textile

>In the DWR design to surface , is an embroidered candlewick bedspread

>dated June 1897.

>Many Quilt scholars believe the pattern emerged after the Civil War,

>but again no real proof ( unless there is other info I'm not aware

>off)

>I've never made a DWR, but this book has some of the nicest Quilts

>from that pattern.

>Monika Jones

>mailto:monikaj@cdsnet.net

>

>

>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:44:32 EST

From: Kathi2174@aol.com

To: qhl@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Re: Kantha Quilts

Message-ID: <58d1e542.36a7bbe0@aol.com>

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Hello Everyone,

My dear neighbor is as addicted to toys as I am to textiles.  I went to my

first antique toy show last weekend.  I was amazed at the high number of doll

and juvenile quilts as well as miniature quilts for dollhouse use.  Anyway,

much to my surprise and delight, I found and purchased a Kantha Quilt, full-

size, not toy.

I'm truly intrigued with the techniques shown on this treasure.  The inner

ground is a form of stipple/echo.  The outer rows of straight lines around the

borders are graduated  in width and stitch length, achieved by using multiple

threads to quilt with instead of one.  I fished out the copy of "Piecework"

with the article on Kanthas, Jan./Feb. 1994, pages 26 - 32, by Linda Lynton.

It was the only reference I could recall.  Then I remembered the recent QHL

thread.  Could someone share sources for learning about this type of quilt.

Mine is not as elaborate as those illustrated in Lynton's article. 

Hope I haven't typed too much here.

Thanks,

Kathi in Calif.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:54:14 -0500 (EST)

From: quiltsnbears@webtv.net (Roberta Geanangel)

On the subject of earlier quilters: 1.)many of those fancier quilts were

done when the women  were young. I watched the young Chinese girls

embroider in China under conditions that would have driven me mad! Poor

light, poor ventilation,poor tools,etc But they were 16-25 and not many

of them worked at this job beyond that age. 2.) Xenia's

correct...handwork was a reason to sit 3) our labor saving devices have

stolen our "free" time. My grandmother did laundry once a week, I do it

3-4 times! She baked bread once a week...I do it 3 times. She baked a

cake or pie on 'bake day", I bake one whenever the urge hits me..(well,

not any more). My grandmother didn't go to a spa or have a personal

trainer..unless you count her 7 kids!!! It goes on and on...and on top

of all this we work outside of the home as well!!

Now...if I'd get offline (computers are a definite "labor saving

device",right???) I could go sew! <grin>

Roberta

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:58:24 EST

From: JBQUILTOK@aol.com

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: Re: QHL: RE: Double Wedding Ring

Message-ID: <b0aa8023.36a7cd30@aol.com>

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I got out my index that Central Oklahoma Quilters Guild published  for the

Kansas City Star patterns & thought I was going nuts.  Couldn't find Double

Wedding Ring.  Then I found it as Wedding Ring.  It was the 7th pattern

published in 1928 and then was published again as numbers 54, 328, 885, 744,

and 969.    In 1939, it was #508 named Small Wedding Ring and it was Little

Wedding Ring as number 706 in 1945 with reprints as numbers 822 and 938.  Hope

that gives some help in dating. 

My mother-in-law had told me once that her family had lost one from around the

time of the Civil War in a fire (the fire was in the early 1900's).  I've

never considered her statement proof of the age of the fire, because she has

been known to exagerate if it helps the story line.

Janet

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:24:36 -0600

From: KAREN BUSH <Birdsong@worldnet.att.net>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Big Stitch

Message-ID: <36A7EF74.3E7B@worldnet.att.net>

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Gail- when the 'big stitch' craze came out a few years ago, I had to

laugh,..they were even giving Classes on it. Well, egg on my face

Again...I LOVE it. I don't do the stitch for customers, as they want

'fine' quilting mostly, but the Big Stitch is also called the utility

stitch, for every day quilts.