Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:23:08 -0800

From: Marilyn Maddalena <marilyn@crl.com>

Eileen, thank you so much for your thoughtful and intelligent insights into

the UGRR book, and for taking the time to set them out so clearly so those

of us who are still novices can learn from you. You put in words just what

I had been thinking, but hadn't taken the time to completely analyze yet. I

do think it's an interesting book, I'm glad I bought it and read it, and it

has added to my knowledge -- (as does everything I read in one way or

another) but I sure don't want to take it as the gospel truth. Last night

on the History Channel was a very lengthy program on the UGRR -- unless I

fell asleep in the middle, or was distracted by chocolate(!), there was not

one mention of quilts in the entire program. I kept waiting for it -- and

thought it quite odd that such a lengthy program, obviously thoroughly

researched by experts -- would not even mention signals by use of quilts,

or maps, or anything else about quilts. The only mention was of a lantern

in the window of safe houses. Wonder if the authors of the Hidden in

Plain View book knew of this program -- and which one is accurate? Anyone

else see it and wonder, too? Marilyn in Sacramento

- ----------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:05:55 -0800

From: Audrey Waite <awquiltr@sedona.net>

To: QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: Dating Fabrics

Message-ID: <36D0E5B3.7D26@sedona.net>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For those interested in learning more about dating antique quilts

through patterns and fabric, our own Eileen Trestain will be teaching a

class called "Dating and Heavy Petting" at Quilt Camp in the Pines,

Saturday, July 24, 1999. Send a SASE for the complete schedule to:

Quilt Camp in the Pines, 160 Sugar Loaf Drive, Sedona, AZ 86336.

Eventually we will have the class schedule on-line at:

http://www.quiltcamp.com

If you've never been to a quilter's retreat or similar outing, you're

really missing a treat!

Audrey Waite

- ----------------------------

 ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:27:53 EST From: WileneSmth@aol.com

! ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:59:37 -0500 From: Barb Garrett<BGARRETT@FAST.NET

To Judy and others - Marilyn Kowaleski owns a very high scale antique co-op on

route 272 in Adamstown, PA, named South Pointe Antiques, just south of the

Turnpike entrance. The shop has absolutely beautiful things, not just

textiles,

and there are always wonderful quilts displayed on the walls above the

showcases. It is a showcase co-op, and they are very friendly. I go and

look as

often as possible -- it's like visiting a wonderful museum. Marilyn has been a

fabric and textile collector for many years -- back when things were cheap --

and she just accumulated them. I don't know that she actively collects now.

Each March she holds a vintage fabrics and textiles show and sale at the co-op

-- which includes things from her collection and things from the other dealers

in the co-op. This year's begins March 4.

 I went last year and the things were truly beautiful to look at. I asked last

year and they said they continually replace things that are sold, and suggest

coming several times during March as new things come out. I know this is at

least the 3rd year she has had the show, but it could be longer. As to whether

it is worth coming -- that's a personal thing. I live 30 minutes from

there, so

enjoy looking and hope to go this year. The quality of the items is very, very

good, the prices what one would expect for top quality from a dealer who knows

what she has. She also has unusual, one of a kind things -- pot holders, pin

cushions, all kinds of smalls. The shop is closed on Tuesdays If anyone has

more questions, please ask and I can look for my literature with hours, etc.

Barb in southeastern PA<BGARRETT@FAST.NET

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:17:28 -0500 From:

"jawhite@courant.infi.net"<JAWHITE@COURANT.INFI.NET To: Quilt History

list<QHL@CUENET.COM Subject: QHL: Hidden in Plain View Message-ID:

<36D158C5.34F9@courant.infi.net>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I wasn't going to say anything, but since the subject has been opened, I agree

100% about this book. My main question about this book is: why did Ozella

Williams feel the need to tell a perfect stranger, someone she had never laid

eyes on before, about this quilt code after all these years? If this is

something that has been handed down orally in families, you'd think we would

have heard about by now. The authors didn't back up the book with enough

research. While there is an extensive bibliography listed in the back of the

book, there were statements made (supposedly statements of fact) within the

book itself that were never attributed to anyone or any research. If you are

going to state something as true fact, it must be backed up with research. The

bibliography is quite extensive (and very interesting) for such a small

book. I

also think that there were no directions obtained from the suggested quilt

patterns/quilts that couldn't have been obtained from observing the night sky

at the time. Dr. Gladys Marie Fry wrote an excellent monograph on Harriet

Powers; yet this was never mentioned. I was left with the feeling that the

authors were trying really hard to force a point and just didn't quite make

it.

I'm not saying the premise isn't true - I am saying that much more good

research needs to be done. Judy White - Ct

------------------------------

 More and more we have come to realize how much of "History" is biased

opinion...very little or none was ever written about the African American

roles

in American history...in the military, in the world of inventions and

education....but to overcompensate by printing more fictionalized history..is

not the answer... The freeing and rescuing of slaves came about because of

Abolitionist activists....not by quilts hanging on fences...and to tell the

descendents of slaves that it was anything else..does not do anything to help

them understand the underground RR movement... when I first heard about the

review of "Hidden in Plain Sight", in USA Today... stating that an old African

American women chose a quilt customer to tell all of this "valuable"

information...I wrote to QHL saying it had the taint of hoax about it... I

know

that racism runs rampant in this country and History has always short changed

the minorities living in this country.... But "pretend" history is not the

answer... jean jquilt@aol.com

------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22

Feb

1999 10:37:35 -0600 From: Laura Hobby Syler<TEXAS_QUILT.CO@MAIL.AIRMAIL.NET

To:

JQuilt@aol.com, qhl@cuenet.com Subject: Re: QHL: "history" Message-Id:

<3.0.3.32.19990222103735.006dd00c@mail.airmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="us-ascii" Jean, and all, You know, I've been suspicious of this since

I first saw "The Good Dr." on Oprah....and expressed those views. But what is

truely sad, and makes me a little mad, is that we all have bought the book

hoping to get more information and at least I for one feel like I was taken to

the cleaners!! Almost like that "Instant Expert" book on antique quilts that

came out last year......... Laura In chilly N. Texas At 10:10 AM 2/22/99 EST,

JQuilt@aol.com wrote: >More and more we have come to realize how much of

"History" is biased >opinion...very little or none was ever written about the

African American >roles in American history...in the military, in the world of

inventions and >education....but to overcompensate by printing more

fictionalized history..is >not the answer... > >The freeing and rescuing of

slaves came about because of Abolitionist >activists....not by quilts hanging

on fences...and to tell the descendents of >slaves that it was anything

else..does not do anything to help them understand >the underground RR

movement... >when I first heard about the review of "Hidden in Plain

Sight", in

USA >Today... stating that an old African American women chose a quilt

customer

to >tell all of this "valuable" information...I wrote to QHL saying it had the

>taint of hoax about it... >I know that racism runs rampant in this country

and

History has always short >changed the minorities living in this country....

>But "pretend" history is not the answer... >jean >jquilt@aol.com > > >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:44:29 EST From: WileneSmth@aol.com To:

QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: 1830s LC quilt in Tobin & Dobard

Message-ID:<AE922D6F.36D1896D@AOL.COM Content-type: text/plain;

charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit <<

However, it is the quilts which are supposedly slave quilts, one which was "a

exceptional example of an early log cabin quilt that was made by a fugitive

slave in the 1840's...." Though a terrible photo supplied by the museum, it

appears to be a classic C.1880 black silk quilt with considerable damage. On

the next page is another log cabin quilt which "is said to be slave made. The

date is given as 1830's by it's owner." Here we have a c.1830 quilt, complete

with a nice strip of mourning print right up the middle, at the front of the

picture? It looks to me like a classic c.1900 log cabin utility quilt, with a

baptist fan quilt pattern overall, and possibly a moderately thick to very

thick batting, common at that time. Even relative novices I have asked, out of

curiosity, and without leading the witness, as it were, have responded when

asked "When was this quilt made?" have said without hesitation "Turn of the

Century." >>

I've been hoping that someone else would notice (and question) the 1830s Log

Cabin quilt in Hidden in Plain View because I wanted to see if others

echoed my

dating of it. Yes, I, too, immediately dated that quilt at ca. 1900-1910. It's

fabrics are one of the common palettes of that time -- cotton calicos of

whites

(shirting prints), light indigo blues, mourning grays, and wines. While I

learned not long ago that a similar light indigo blue existed in the 1820s

(I'd

love to share my story about those if anyone is interested), but it apparently

was not widely used. The wine color did not, as far as I've discovered, exist

until around the last quarter of the 19th century, and I believe the grays

began around the same time, though they could date a tad earlier. And I've yet

to see that fan quilting pattern in a quilt that was made prior to the end of

the 19th century, and it was extremely popular for utilitarian quilts early in

the 20th century. But my critique of that particular quilt is not limited to

Jackie and Raymond's book, as I have long criticized not one, but many of the

quilts illustrated by Gladys-Marie Fry in Stitched from the Soul: Slave Quilts

from the Ante-Bellum South (NYC: Dutton Studio Books, 1990).

Six quilts are pictured on pages 18-20 (Plates 21-26) with the caption: "These

six quilts are said to have been made by 'sewing women' -- slaves that were

specially trained to do quilting." #21 is a broderie perse so DOES date to

slavery days. #22 is "ify" to a date -- it's either 2nd half 19th century or

1st half 20th century. #24 is definitely 19th century (lots of well-worn brown

calicos), but a closer date is not possible from that photograph. #26 is a

whole cloth quilt which is undateable from this photograph. But #23 and #25

are

20th century and MADE from 1920s-1930s prints, so can't possibly be "slave

made" for obvious reasons. Made by "former slaves," yes. #23 is a

Grandmother's

Flower Garden in the common configuration of two rows of hexagons around the

center hexagon, the pieces are typically large, and the prints used are

typical

1920s-1930s. #25 is a pattern first published May 1921 in Woman's World

magazine (Chicago) as "Cracker," then repeated as a Four Patch in this quilt.

(This is not to say the design did not "exist" prior to 1921, just that

1921 is

the earliest publication date presently known.)

 The next quilt, a two-color Lone Star top, Plate 27, is also said to be

"slave-made," but I question it, too. Plate 31 (p.22) is an embroidered crazy

quilt, mostly wools, said to have been started by a house slave before the

Civil War and finished by her daughter in 1895. And there are still more

obviously 20th century quilts on pp. 40-41 with the caption: "These three

quilts made by slave Nancy Vaughn Ford are important, for they are good

examples of the utilitarian quilts made by slaves for their own use in their

free time." The first one, #56, dates ca. 1880-1910. #57 incorporates a

printed

fabric of giant pastel hearts with large words between them and likely a 1950s

fabric. #58 needs no further comment here. #61 is pieced goblet blocks and it

is unlikely that pieced picture blocks existed until after the Civil War. I

also question #110, #111, and #114, all attributed to a woman "imported from

the Congo in 1818" when she was 12 or 13 years old. All three appear to be

early 20th century.

In discussing Jackie and Raymond's book, we are doing exactly what Raymond

suggested in his Author's Note on page 33: "Our interpretation of the code is

based in part upon informed conjecture. While we believe that our research and

the piecing together of our findings present a strong viable case, we do not

claim that our 'deciphering' of the code is infallible. Nor do we insist that

our perspective is the only one for viewing the code. We have written the book

in a way that encourages questions. We leave room for the reader to add

her/his

own ideas and thereby contribute to the growing body of knowledge. In the

spirit of quiltmaking, we invite you to join us in juxtaposing ideas so that

patterns and meanings are revealed." And that is exactly what we are doing

here

on QHL, albeit rather harshly at times. Jackie and Raymond are to be

applauded,

in my view, for bringing this idea to us "in Plain View." I'll climb down off

my soap box now, and Thanks for listening. --Wilene

 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:46:20 -0600 From:

Laura Hobby Syler<TEXAS_QUILT.CO@MAIL.AIRMAIL.NET To: ZegrtQuilt@aol.com,

QHL@cuenet.com Subject: Re: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V99 #51 Message-Id:

<3.0.3.32.19990222104620.006e15f0@mail.airmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="us-ascii" Shelly, do you remember the conversations that we had last

year about the "black centered Log Cabins"? There is some documentation

back to

King Tut's tomb with one of the golden cat idols wrapped in cloth strips that

formed a log cabin design.......I think that Karen Evans also gave us some art

history background???? But I do know that the pattern became popular during

Lincoln's presidency and there after... Laura At 11:15 AM 2/22/99 EST,

ZegrtQuilt@aol.com wrote: >I am curious as to when you all think the log cabin

pattern developed. This >is in reference to Eileen's discussion of the book

Hidden in Plain View. I >have always thought that the pattern was not in

existance as early as it is >referenced in the publication.Shelly Z > > >

------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:21:47 EST From:

JQuilt@aol.com To: qhl@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: (no subject) Message-ID:

<762b6685.36d1922b@aol.com>

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit when I wrote my "Give me a break" message a

month or so ago...after reading the review in USA Today...someone wrote to the

list saying people(Me) shouldn't say negative things about a book before they

read it...well the review was enough for me NOT to buy the book...that's what

reviews are all about.... When you read that a book was written based on the

"fact" that someone who died gave all of the secret codes to a

stranger.......I

think it's time to say Buyer Beware jean

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:21:10 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: Mary

Persyn<MARY.PERSYN@VALPO.EDU To: qhl@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Imperfections

Message-ID:<SIMEON.9902221110.D@VUNEWS.VALPO.EDU.VALPO.EDU Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Have any of you seen this year's issue of "Vintage Quilts", the magazine issue

from ??? (I'm at work and the mag is at home) containing pictures of old

quilts

and how to reproduce them? I remember we discussed last year's issue on line.

Anyway, this years issue has an Amish quilt that is all churn dash blocks

except one crown of thorns? block and the article says it is a typical example

of not wanting to make a perfect quiilt. To my way of thinking the magazine is

perpetuating the myth. There are some lovely quilts pictured in the magazine,

but again they did not give any information about the provenance of the quilts

or much other information of a historical nature. I have some questions about

the information they did give also. I think that detracts from the magazine

(but didn't stop me from buying it, of course. :+)) There are articles by Bev

Dunivant (hope I spelled the name right) on crazy quilts, Anita Schakelford

(ditto as to spelling) on collecting old quilts, and ??? (another senior

moment). Now returning to lurkdom, Mary in sunny and cold Valparaiso, IN

----------------------------------------- Mary Persyn (219) 465-7830 Email:

Mary.Persyn@valpo.edu Law Librarian School of Law Valparaiso University

Valparaiso, IN 46383 FAX: (219) 465-7917 -

-----------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:27:29 EST From: WileneSmth@aol.com To:

QHL@cuenet.com

Subject: QHL: re: antique "orphan" blocks Message-ID:

<6f9c79c1.36d19381@aol.com>

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << I have been pulling out all of the antique

"orphan" blocks that I've inherited or found... just wondering what others of

you have done to display these. I'm going to be doing some redecorating in the

spring and want to use these in my decor. Just want to know what good ideas

are

out there to use these little treasures in new and different ways. Found one I

forgot I had... found it a few years ago at a flea market. I have no idea what

pattern it is but I bought it because it has three paper template pieces

pinned

to it. They were cut from an envelope and as fortune would have it, there is a

postmark! November 26, 1928 at 4:30 p.m.

I would like to somehow display this block along with the templates. Ideas

welcome! Lauri Klobas Pacific PaKarendes, California >> This is what I've

learned to do with the ones that I avidly collect. I've accumulated a large

collection (about 1,000 now) of these "orphan blocks" over the past 20+ years

and they have become a vital part of my quilt pattern research. I've learned

more about quilt making and quilt makers from them than from any other single

source. Many of these were actually "pattern blocks" never intended to be used

in a quilt, but as a pattern and how it went together, especially when one

finds the templates attached to them. I did a research paper for AQSG about

these that's in Uncoverings 1986. My collection now fills three very large

boxes and many of them are unidentified as to name or published source. They

range in age from about the 1820s-1830s to the mid-20th century. I use my huge

collection of original vintage published sources (and database) to identify a

possible source (or sources) for each block (based on the age of its fabrics),

and print a label on 100% cotton paper, attaching it to each block with a

brass

safety pin like we used in the Kansas Quilt Project. I use Barbara Brackman's

numbering system to keep them in a "findeable" order.

While it's all an exercise in "educated guesswork," it also gives me a chance

to study how each quiltmaker interpreted her design as compared to the

published illustration that might have inspired her (and some of these

comparisons can be quite humorous today). I once attempted a simple framing

project to "protect" them, but soon learned that the backs are nearly as

important as the fronts, so I have gradually "unframed" many of them. I

shudder

when I think of the many "pattern blocks" that were wasted by others in the

1970s in throw pillows and other projects, but that's all part of the learning

process for all of us. --Wilene

 ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:51:45 +0400 From: Xenia Cord<XECORD@NETUSA1.NET To:

QHL@cuenet.com Subject: QHL: Re: Log Cabin Message-ID:

<36D17D09.1F4C@netusa1.net>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the question raised by Shelly of the age of

Log Cabin as a quilt design: in Indiana there is a quilt made shortly after

Lincoln's death, in the Log Cabin design. When the funeral train carrying

Lincoln's body passed through Indianapolis, the pillars of the State House

were

wrapped in black wool bunting. The plan was that the catafalque was to be

placed in the rotunda so the citizenry could file past, but a terrible storm

necessitated a change in plans, and the casket remained on the train. After

the

train departed, an Indianapolis restaurant owner obtained some of the bunting

and gave it to his wife and daughter, who made a very somber Log Cabin quilt

from it. The quilt is rusty black and dark green, primarily, with red centers

and a pinky beige wool for the light half of the blocks. The set is Barn

Raising. It is presumed that the quilt was made at the time the bunting was

obtained, so around 1866-68. You can see the quilt on page 31 of Quilts of

Indiana (1991), and read the story. Although not pictured there, there is a

photo of the state house and the draping taken when the funeral train was in

Indianapolis. A book with this photo is with the quilt. The quilt has been

exhibited a number of times in central Indiana, as the descendant is generous

in lending it to qualified exhibitors. Xenia ------------------------------

--=====================_6898515==_.ALT

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:23:08 -0800
From: Marilyn Maddalena <marilyn@crl.com>
To: QHL@cuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Re: "Hidden" book review
Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990221192308.006ea118@mail.crl.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
Eileen, thank you so much for your thoughtful and intelligent insights into
the UGRR book, and for taking the time to set them out so clearly so those
of us who are still novices can learn from you. You put in words just what
I had been thinking, but hadn't taken the time to completely analyze yet. I
do think it's an interesting book, I'm glad I bought it and read it, and it
has added to my knowledge -- (as does everything I read in one way or
another) but I sure don't want to take it as the gospel truth. Last night
on the History Channel was a very lengthy program on the UGRR -- unless I
fell asleep in the middle, or was distracted by chocolate(!), there was not
one mention of quilts in the entire program. I kept waiting for it -- and
thought it quite odd that such a lengthy program, obviously thoroughly
researched by experts -- would not even mention signals by use of quilts,
or maps, or anything else about quilts. The only mention was of a lantern
in the window of safe houses. Wonder if the authors of the Hidden in
Plain View book knew of this program -- and which one is accurate? Anyone
else see it and wonder, too? Marilyn in Sacramento
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:05:55 -0800
From: Audrey Waite <awquiltr@sedona.net>
To: QHL@cuenet.com
Subject: QHL: Dating Fabrics
Message-ID: <36D0E5B3.7D26@sedona.net>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
For those interested in learning more about dating antique quilts
through patterns and fabric, our own Eileen Trestain will be teaching a
class called "Dating and Heavy Petting" at Quilt Camp in the Pines,
Saturday, July 24, 1999. Send a SASE for the complete schedule to:
Quilt Camp in the Pines, 160 Sugar Loaf Drive, Sedona, AZ 86336.

----------------------------------------------

Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 073852 -0800

From Anne Scott <nzquilter@xtra.co.nz>

To QHL@cuenet.com

Australian quilt historian and founder of the Australian Quilt Study

Group Margaret Rolfe is an expert on these quilts.

My information is from her excellent book Australian Quilt Heritage

Published by JB Fairfax Press, 1998.

Prison reformer Elizabeth Fry, a Quaker, organised for convict women to

receive fabric and sewing needles etc so they could both be occupied on

the long ship voyage and have something they could sell on landing in

Australia. The quilts were indeed sold, not only in Australia. It appears

that women on one ship, The Wellington, sold their quilts for a guinea

each in Rio de Janeiro, en route to Australia.

Convict women were supplied with

"a small hessian bag that contained one piece of tape; one oz of pins;

one hundred needles; four balls of white sewing cotton; one ditto black;

one ditto blue; one ditto red; two balls of black worsted, half an oz

each; twenty four hanks of coloured thread, one of cloth, with 8 darning

needles and one small bodkin fastened on it; two stay laces; one thimble;

one pair of scissors; one pair of spectacles, when required; two lbs of

patch-work pieces."

Elizabeth Fry's work in the prisons dates from 1816 through until her

death in 1843. Elizabeth Fry was responsible for supplying convict women

on 106 ships which made their way to Australia during this time. Over

12,000 women were among the passengers. Most of the quilts were

utilitarian and doubtless have long since disappeared.

The most famous prison quilt is the Rajah quilt, discovered in 1980 in

Scotland and subsequently purchased by the National Gallery of Australia.

It was stitched by the convict women on board the Rajah as a thank you

for Elizabeth Fry. It remains unquilted, medallion style with a broderie

perse central block. It is 325 cm x 337 cm - a very large quilt top.

I too have been watching this quilt on auction with interest and would

suspect the correct dating, if it is indeed a convict quilt would be more

likely to be between 1820-1845.

None of the convict ships came to New Zealand.

Anne Scott

Editor & Publisher

New Zealand QUILTER magazine

Wellington, New Zealand

------------------------------

Date Tue, 23 Feb 1999 164349 -0500

From "J. G. Row" <Judygrow@blast.net>

>would not make their (item)

>perfect, as only Mohammed was perfect. This was on Discovery/TLC, and I

>meant to remember everything, but ............It was PBS, "Antiques

Roadshow", and >whichever middle-eastern tribe had woven the rug they were

appraising (the rug >was HUGE). The man appraising stated that they

wouldn't use matching dye

>lots of yarn to create the piece, because only Mohammed was perfect and

>capable of making perfection. And as the years went on, the dye lots

>would fade differently, making the differences even more noticeable (the

>rug in question had blue sections that were two different shades of the

>same color).

Alan, I saw that show too. I don't remember hearing the appraiser speak

about perfection, etc., but I do remember him speaking about the different

dye lots. The correct term for shades of the same color in an Oriental rug

is "abrash." Remember that many of those rugs, especially the smaller

Caucasian rugs were woven by nomadic people. They were able to buy or dye

only small quantities of wool, and so the different dye lots would show up

immediately in the rug. It is not particularly something that would show up

with time.

The rug on PBS was a Kirman I think, woven in Northern Iran. Because of its

size I doubt if it was woven by nomadic people, and I doubt if many men

knotted many knots in it. Because of the great number of knots psi usually

women and young girls (whose fingers were smaller) knotted rugs on huge

vertical looms, three and four women to a row.

I am sure Maury will correct me if I am wrong (please).

Judy in Ringoes, NJ

judygrow@blast.net

--------------------------------------

Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 081149 -0600

From Mark Kriss <mkriss@quiltcollector.com> (by way of Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrs@albany.net>)

Content-Type text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks very much for all the interest in and comments about the Australian

Prison Quilt from Diana Leone's collection.

Based on your questions and concerns, Diana has contacted several quilting

experts and historians in Australia who might assist in dating the quilt

more precisely. At this point, she's placing it in the 1860-1880 range. If

you have any information or sources of documentation that might be

relevant, please send it to Diana directly at dianaleone@hotmail.com.

As soon as she has more information, it will be posted to the QHL list as

well as at http//www.quiltcollector.com/prisoner.htm

Best regards,

--Mark Kriss

+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

Mark Kriss <mkriss@quiltcollector.com>

Quiltcollector.com

Online Quilt Auctions for Discriminating Buyers

www.quiltcollector.com phone 650.857.9035

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 081501 EST

From ZegrtQuilt@aol.com

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re Australian quilt

I have really appreciated everyone's comments about the auction of the

Australian quilt. For me, the most important part is that it was quilted in

1996. It is not an 1880 quilt if it was quilted in 1996. It is an 1880 top

quilted in 1996.That alone changes the value dramatically, in my humble

opinion. Shelly Zegart

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 082915 +0000

From Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@uswest.net>

Dear Shelly,

Re log cabin quilts. The earliest documention (I mean documentation

supporting the date), according to my research, is 1850.

Bobbie A. Aug

ZegrtQuilt@aol.com wrote

> re Australian quilt

>

> I have really appreciated everyone's comments about the auction of the

> Australian quilt. For me, the most important part is that it was quilted in

> 1996. It is not an 1880 quilt if it was quilted in 1996. It is an 1880 top

> quilted in 1996.That alone changes the value dramatically, in my humble

> opinion. Shelly Zegart

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 104458 -0500

From "Peggy O'Connor" <mnoc@brinet.com>

To <QHL@cuenet.com>

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One of the things I've wondered is what should one expect to pay for an

antique top that has been recently quilted, versus what the piece would cost

if the top had been quilted at the time it was made. Price surely depends

on the rarity of the top itself, but does the quilting or its detail play

much of a role in this case? Any opinions?

Peggy in NC, where the forecasted snowstorm has produced not one flake

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 090600 -0700

From "Jeanne.Fetzer" <Jeanne.Fetzer@integrityonline3.com>

To "QHL" <qhl@cuenet.com>

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Dear Friends

I just turned in a reservation (my nephew is getting married in San =

Francisco the same week) at the Best Western Paducah Inn for April 18 - =

23 (check out on April 24, 1999). The phone number is 502-443-2323. If =

you call the 800 number they will tell you it is all booked. If you =

hurry and need a room, you may be able to get this reservation. The =

room is a single king bed for one person. If they tell you they are =

full, mention my name (Jeanne Fetzer) and see if you can have the room. =

I will be jealous all that week, but try to put on a smile at my =

nephew's wedding (27 yr. old handsome boy with a killer smile). =

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 111208 -0600 (CST)

From Carol H Elmore <celmore@ksu.edu>

To QHL@cuenet.com

Subject QHL Cheryl Phillips

Message-ID <Pine.SOL.3.96L.990224111055.12679A-100000@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>

Content-Type TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Does anyone know the e-mail address for Cheryl Phillips who wrote

Wedgeworks. I need to contact her as soon as possible.

Carol Elmore

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 132028 +0000

From Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@uswest.net>

To Carol H Elmore <celmore@ksu.edu>

CC QHL@cuenet.com

Subject Re QHL Cheryl Phillips

Message-ID <36D3FC9B.91F80DD1@clsp.uswest.net>

Content-Type text/plain; charset=us-ascii

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Carol,

Cheryl is from over on the Western Slope. Haven't seen her in awhile

and I don't think she is a current member of The Colorado Quilting

Council, but I will email Membership Chair and get back to you.

Bobbie

Carol H Elmore wrote

> Does anyone know the e-mail address for Cheryl Phillips who wrote

> Wedgeworks. I need to contact her as soon as possible.

> Carol Elmore

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Date Thu, 25 Feb 1999 083841 +0800

From Kath Balfour <balfourk@echidna.id.au>

To QHL@cuenet.com

Subject QHL Prisoner's quilt, or criminal assault?

Message-Id <l03020908b2fa3108ee4a@[203.59.30.42]>

Content-Type text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've checked out the website about the Australian "prisoners" quilt, too,

which starts with a mission statement about trust and goodwill,and ends

with a seal of authenticity.

I agree with Jean Eitel. For the casual collector like me, there are many

very obvious warning signals from the outset that something is amiss -- the

terminology ("convict" was the term of the day), the dates, the story about

how the quilt was supposedly made, and, glaringly, the omission of any

description of the materials, etc.

What is heartbreaking is the suspicion that there may have been something

historically worthwhile to start with, before the "expert" hastened its

demise by assembling, repairing, and quilting out any authenticity or value

the original piece(s) may have had. (Sigh) Another real story lost to

history...now THAT'S criminal!

Taken on face value (is there any other way, on an internet auction?)

anyone should conclude that, as we say in Australia, someone is having a

lend of us. Meaning it sounds like total fabrication (pardon the pun).

Caveat emptor.

Now when I hear the name Diane Leone, of course I will associate it with

this dubious episode.

Jean also speculated the quilt may have been made later, possibly on a

bride ship.

<No doubt "brides" were sent to Australia long after prison ships stopped,

and if these women were brides for the male settlers of Australia maybe

they were not prisoners at all. There, that is my addition to the oral

history mis-information. Anyone else?>

From the late 19th century, it was well advertised in the British Isles

that there were opportunities for women in the Australian colonies. Women

came of their own free will and took their chances when they got here. The

colonies were poorly populated, and they were keen to advertise their

attractions to entice settlement.

My friend has written a biography of her grandmother, a Scottish woman

working as a domestic servant in England, who came to Perth in 1900 on a

ship mostly filled with single women. She had kept a diary aboard ship, and

such documents from working class women are very rare indeed. The diary is

wonderful, and tells of her 6 weeks adventure in her own words, and her

hopes and dreams. No quilting, but certainly there was needlework to while

away the hours at sea. She went to the goldfields to work as a hotel maid,

met an Irishman recently arrived by way of Chicago, and eventually went

farming. He died, leaving her with 6 little kids to rear and a farm to work

by herself. She kept the diary in her trunk, never writing another word

once she got here. She died in the 1950s. Now my friend is making a

pictorial quilt called Maggie's Story, after her grandmother. 1999 is the

centenery of women's suffrage in Western Australia, and there will be a big

exhibition of quilts depicting Western Australian women and their

accomplishments.

cheers

Kath Balfour

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 203445 -0500

From laurel horton <kalmia@innova.net>

To QHL, and beyond,

Here's something to puzzle over

I've been working with a collection of 16 quilts made by three generations

within an extended family in South Carolina. In preparation for taking

down a physical description of each one, I was spending some time just

looking at each one before I wrote anything. I was examining one, called

"Sunflower" by an earlier owner, which is similar to a number of "Mariner's

Compass" variations, having a circle in the center surrounded by four

concentric rings of points. The fabrics are, from the center out, a yellow

print, red solid, green print, and blue floral print. A very nice example

of a pieced quilt from the 3rd quarter, 19th century, I thought. Then I

counted the points, expecting 12 or maybe 16. There are 11 points. Even

though the needlework seemed very exact, I thought maybe one of the

sunflowers might have been "off," so I checked the other blocks--each of

them has 11 points.

Now I've looked at a lot of quilts over the years, but I don't remember

anything quite like this. I can't think of any reason that someone would

have intentionally laid out a pattern with this degree of

difficulty--unless she wanted to impress others with her drafting and

piecing skills. But even then, the effect is so subtle that it would be

easy to miss the fact that this is not your typical

circle-divided-into-60-degree-segments. It's clear that the formation of

11-point rings is quite intentional. All of the hand-pieced points are

evenly spaced.

This makes me wonder if there were earlier quilts like this which I didn't

examine closely enough to detect similar anomalies. Has anyone else seen

quilts, blocks, photos, or descriptions of quilts with radiating pieced

designs which have an unusual number of points? Or can anyone suggest the

significance of the number 11?

Laurel Horton

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 211127 -0800

From Audrey Waite <awquiltr@sedona.net>

To kalmia@innova.net

CC QHL@cuenet.com

Laurel

Check out The Smithsonian Treasury AMERICAN QUILTS, p. 48. The Groom's

Quilt by Benoni Pearce. This quilt was made in 1850 and look at the

stars in the bottom row. The second block from the left has 13 points!

The star in the middle has 9 points. Maybe they had better drafting

tools in the 1850's!

I did volunteer work at the Smithsonian in 1980-81 and did some

conservation on this quilt for an exhibit at the Renwick. I noticed the

odd number of star points then, so I'm happy to hear that Benoni wasn't

the only one making "funky" stars. By the way the Smithsonian thought

Benoni was a woman until some relatives came to see the quilt and told

them Benoni was a MAN!

Audrey Waite in sunny Sedona, AZ

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Date Thu, 25 Feb 1999 043138 -0000

From "Anne Copeland" <anneappraiser@mailcity.com>

Hello to all. I am Anne Copeland, an AQS certified quilt appraiser, quilt historian, quilt restoration person, and co-founder of Repiecers of the Past, a quilt study/quilt restoration group in Southern California.

I am interested in all historical subjects related to quilts, and in just about every type of quilts. I have a collection of quilts myself, and have also done quilting, though I am not going to be one of the world's great quilters.

I am so happy to be a part of this discussion group, and look forward to getting e-mail from each and every one. Oh yes, I am also an animal and plant lover, and have more than my share of each. I hope to hear from some of my old friends here too, people I haven't heard from in ages. Cheers, Anne

Get your FREE Email at http//mailcity.lycos.com

Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http//personal.lycos.com

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Date Wed, 24 Feb 1999 211900 PST

From "diana leone" <dianaleone@hotmail.com>

Content-type text/plain

I appreciate the information Kath Balfour has contributed to the

on-going discussion about the Australian Quilt Top.

With respect to the specific issues raised, here are some replies

1) First some background about the piece. I purchased the top from a

dealer in NYC about 10 years ago. It was in fairly good condition. I had

the top restored, carefully, and had the quilt top finished. We used the

best fabrics available for the restoration. The top was assembled with

the best batting and backing I could find that I felt did not distract

from the original. The quilt was very finely hand quilted. This took

over a year to complete. I feel, as a person who cares very much about

the preservation and integrity of quilts, that what I did to this top

did not ruin it but preserved it for a longer period of time. Certainly

it is not the way it may have been finished in Australia, but it was

done with care and love and not to offend. I do feel that the best place

for this piece is back to Australia to some Museum or the like.

2) My words, prisoner instead of convict, while being wrong from the

Australian end, were entirely my error. I was told a brief story about

the quilt when I was in Melbourne. I now realize that the information

was sketchy at best. So, most of all, I appreciate all your help and

diligence in finding out more about this work. Any further documentation

is appreciated. It is spectacular and a treasure.

Meanwhile, again my thanks for correcting me so willingly. The web site

quiltcollector.com is going to be a great vehicle for us all, to learn,

to share and to hopefully bridge some gaps.

My best to you, Diana Leone

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Date Thu, 25 Feb 1999 084836 +0000

From Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@uswest.net>

Laurel,

Give us a few more clues such as the overall size of the piece. Were the

colors representative of Pennsylvania Dutch quilts? Were their borders? Did

the red print have black stems and leaves and yellow flowers? What color

green? I'm looking at the quilt from an age point of view and not from the

significance of the number 11. For all we know, perhaps there were 11

children.

Bobbie A. Aug

laurel horton wrote

> To QHL, and beyond,

>

> Here's something to puzzle over

>

> I've been working with a collection of 16 quilts made by three generations

> within an extended family in South Carolina. In preparation for taking

> down a physical description of each one, I was spending some time just

> looking at each one before I wrote anything. I was examining one, called

> "Sunflower" by an earlier owner, which is similar to a number of "Mariner's

> Compass" variations, having a circle in the center surrounded by four

> concentric rings of points. The fabrics are, from the center out, a yellow

> print, red solid, green print, and blue floral print. A very nice example

> of a pieced quilt from the 3rd quarter, 19th century, I thought. Then I

> counted the points, expecting 12 or maybe 16. There are 11 points. Even

> though the needlework seemed very exact, I thought maybe one of the

> sunflowers might have been "off," so I checked the other blocks--each of

> them has 11 points.

>

> Now I've looked at a lot of quilts over the years, but I don't remember

> anything quite like this. I can't think of any reason that someone would

> have intentionally laid out a pattern with this degree of

> difficulty--unless she wanted to impress others with her drafting and

> piecing skills. But even then, the effect is so subtle that it would be

> easy to miss the fact that this is not your typical

> circle-divided-into-60-degree-segments. It's clear that the formation of

> 11-point rings is quite intentional. All of the hand-pieced points are

> evenly spaced.

>

> This makes me wonder if there were earlier quilts like this which I didn't

> examine closely enough to detect similar anomalies. Has anyone else seen

> quilts, blocks, photos, or descriptions of quilts with radiating pieced

> designs which have an unusual number of points? Or can anyone suggest the

> significance of the number 11?

>

> Laurel Horton

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Date Thu, 25 Feb 1999 082724 -0600

From DSefton@kcstar.com

To QHL@cuenet.com

Subject QHL Kansas City Star quilt patterns book

Message-ID <41E1182C943BD211B0B000805F6595480479EC@kcsxch01.kcstar.com>

Content-Type text/plain

Hello. My name is Dru Sefton and I'm a reporter with The Kansas City Star

newspaper in Kansas City, Mo., home of the famous quilt patterns. Right now

I'm at work on a book about the patterns, the first that will be published

by The Star. I'm on the lookout for quilters around the country who take a

special interest in the Star patterns (perhaps they've quilted dozens of

them, or have collected all the patterns) as well as photographs of quilters

and quilting bees from the 1930s through the late 1950s. I've been in

contact with the (very helpful!) Central Oklahoma Quilters Guild, as well as

Dorothymae Groves in Kansas City and Wilene Smith in Wichita, Kan., all of

whom compiled the patterns into books. If anyone out there has any

suggestions on my project - especially photograph sources - I'd be very

grateful to hear from you. You may post back to the list or e-mail me

directly at dsefton@kcstar.com. Thanks in advance! Regards, Dru

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